|
|
|
|
| Author |
|
|
Me like track days
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 10,209
|
COSTCO & nitrogen for tires
Does anyone know if Costco will fill tires with their nitrogen if not purchased at Costco?
I want the benefits of reduced air pressure changes when hot vs. cold. I have the air bleeders on the wheels of my 930, but I currently have to add air when the tire returns to cold after the bleeds off when running hot.
__________________
- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ - "930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe Movie: 930 on the dyno |
||
06-29-2005, 03:52 PM
|
|
|
Registered
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 342
|
Nitrogen doesn't really help with pressure creep in any tire that has been mounted using any quantity of tire spooge, as is typical with almost all short aspect ratio radial tires nowadays. The moisture in the spooge on the inside of the vessel (the mounted tire) will negate the benefits of using nitrogen. The total temperature change isn't nearly in the same range of course, but when water converts to steam it expands 1700+ times in volume. So you can see where the moisture content is a large component of the creep.
Nitrogen is not the holy grail anyway, it just helps. Even when mounting my stock car tires dry, they still experience pressure creep, just not as much. They build from 16 psi to 30 over a run, rather than having to start at 8 psi. Not to mention the first time you top off the pressure after the tires cool off, you will be diluting the nitrogen that you initially used. The primary benefit of using nitrogen is the transportability of large volumes of compressed air in a relatively small vessel. The alternative is to carry a full 10 gallon tank of ordinary compressed air that should last you a full track day. I'd just get used to using it, or discontinue using the tire reliefs and put up the varying handling characteristics as the tire pressures grow from the low side of ideal to the balloon side. Not to mention cutting your tire life in half. |
||
|
06-29-2005, 04:11 PM
|
|
|
Me like track days
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 10,209
|
I was told that nitrogen virtually eliminates tire pressure increases - since it apparently does not, then I won't even bother with nitrogen.
__________________
- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ - "930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe Movie: 930 on the dyno |
||
|
06-29-2005, 04:23 PM
|
|
|
Detached Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: southern California
Posts: 26,964
|
Normal air is 79% nitrogen, 20.8% oxygen and the rest argon and other stuff. Why does Costco put in nitrogen, I never knew that.
__________________
Hugh |
||
|
06-29-2005, 05:32 PM
|
|
|
Registered
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Bremerton, WA
Posts: 378
|
The reason nitrogen is put into tires (AIRCRAFT) is that it does not support combustion and I had belived that presure changes were smaller between the extreme temperature changes from 164'c ( at 165'c the fuse plugs blow and deflate the tires) to -65' c at 35,000'.
its possible racing cars use nitrogen for those reasons but i never knew COSTCO used it.
__________________
1983 911SC 1977 911S "parting out" |
||
|
06-29-2005, 06:54 PM
|
|
|
Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 13,333
|
Does Costco sell nitrogen in tanks?
__________________
Jack Olsen 1972 911 My new video about my garage. • A video from German TV about my 911 |
||
|
06-29-2005, 09:23 PM
|
|
|
|
Registered Cruiser
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Pursuing Happiness
Posts: 3,892
|
Chinch bugs....
__________________
87' Carmine Red Carrera - Keeper 82' Silver SC - Sold 79' Gran Prix White SC - Sold 05' Black C2S - Daily driver I have never really completely understood anything. |
||
|
06-29-2005, 09:46 PM
|
|
|
Registered
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 697
|
Do a search on the Ideal Gas Laws and you'll see that if you double the temperature, you'll double the pressure, regardless of gas. The advantage to nitrogen in higher levels of racing is the 'elimination' of water. If there is water (liquid or vapour) in the tire, the pressure will end up being more than the Ideal Gas Law would indicate. However it is a pretty small difference and probably not worth the cost/effort.
__________________
Matt B '73 911E |
||
|
06-30-2005, 12:03 AM
|
|
|
Registered
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 224
|
The main use of nitrogen in tires is to reduce leakage and condensation. Nitrogen molecules are larger.
__________________
75 targa 2.7 Lean and green |
||
|
06-30-2005, 11:01 AM
|
|
|
Me like track days
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 10,209
|
Bottom line - Don't waste your money going out of the way to get Nitrogen. Unless you have a steady supply for refill -
__________________
- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ - "930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe Movie: 930 on the dyno |
||
|
06-30-2005, 11:04 AM
|
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 9,569
|
. . . manganese. . . . you know, credit troubles. . .
__________________
'66 911 #304065 Irischgruen ‘96 993 Carrera 2 Polarsilber '81 R65 Ex-'71 911 PCA C-Stock Club Racer #806 (Sold 5/15/13) Ex-'88 Carrera (Sold 3/29/02) Ex-'91 Carrera 2 Cabriolet (Sold 8/20/04) Ex-'89 944 Turbo S (Sold 8/21/20) |
||
|
06-30-2005, 11:07 AM
|
|
|
Detached Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: southern California
Posts: 26,964
|
If that were true, then after a while, the only gas in the tire would be nitrogen, if the oxygen molecule were smaller.
__________________
Hugh |
||
|
06-30-2005, 11:07 AM
|
|
|
|
Me like track days
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 10,209
|
Theoretically yes, practically - probably not
__________________
- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ - "930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe Movie: 930 on the dyno |
||
|
06-30-2005, 11:09 AM
|
|
|
Registered
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Linn County, Oregon
Posts: 48,523
|
I've been running my cars with a nitrogen blend for decades. My dad & gramps did the same...
__________________
"Now, to put a water-cooled engine in the rear and to have a radiator in the front, that's not very intelligent." -Ferry Porsche (PANO, Oct. '73) (I, Paul D. have loved this quote since 1973. It will remain as long as I post here.) |
||
|
06-30-2005, 11:31 AM
|
|
|
Registered Cruiser
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Pursuing Happiness
Posts: 3,892
|
I'm on a five year plan...
__________________
87' Carmine Red Carrera - Keeper 82' Silver SC - Sold 79' Gran Prix White SC - Sold 05' Black C2S - Daily driver I have never really completely understood anything. |
||
|
06-30-2005, 12:00 PM
|
|
|
Registered
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 308
|
Quote:
__________________
Tim 1983 930 w/ goodies |
||
|
06-30-2005, 01:19 PM
|
|
|
Registered
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Texas
Posts: 678
|
Costco manager told me they do it because nitrogen filled tires hold pressure longer. It makes business sense for them because many people don't check air pressure they were getting a lot of warranty claims as a result.
__________________
Bill M 88 Carrera 86 944 SP1 06 Cayman SPC |
||
|
06-30-2005, 06:06 PM
|
|
|
Stranger on the Internet
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bradenton, FL
Posts: 3,244
|
This is the first time I ever heard of someone using nitrogen in their tires. I must have lived a sheltered life. I've ever only used it for purging lines to take the flammables out, or aircraft Dewar tanks.
Live and learn.
__________________
Patrick E. Keefe 78 SC |
||
|
06-30-2005, 06:40 PM
|
|
|
Registered
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: NC
Posts: 746
|
Nitrogen filled tires are used on long haul trucks regularly. The nitrogen is drier than air and this reduces the rate of oxidization to the inside of the tire. Thus the tires last longer and can be re-tread more times.
The Digital Chassis in Durham put N in my tires, he's got a handy little machine in the back that just filters it out of the air. As has been mentioned Costco does it for safety, N leaks out slower so it improves safety for people who don't ever check their tire pressures. Britt |
||
|
07-02-2005, 05:09 AM
|
|
