Alignment Questions

[wholberg]

Just got my car (87 Carrera) back from an alignment and the bad news from my wrench is:

Torsion bars are frozen and need replaced
Front strut needs replaced
R and L wheels are at -2 and -1 Camber, respectively.

My questions:

I'll replace the torsion bars with Weltmeister hollow units (all bars are original). Can I do front and rear at different times, or should I do front and rear at the same time so the car does not handle strange?

Front struts are original units. My car is a daily driver which may see 1-2 DE events per year. I am inclined to replace struts with Boge units, though I am in no hurry to do so. I've read lots on aftermarket struts, opinions from people with similar usage? What do you have on your daily drivers and do you like it?

The wrench seems to think that the negative camber is a problem. I don't think so, except that they are not equal and the car has a very slight pull to the right. I am inclined to just set them both at -2 and leave it. Opinions?

Thanks in advance.

FYI, I've ordered Wayne's book but have not received it yet, so, sorry if these questions are redundant, (I I have searched these topics).

Walt

[wholberg]

I forgot to add that the wrench said that he camber settings are at their limit because of stuck torsion bars and bent struts. He said that he sees a lot of bent struts. Is this common?

[Huck]

Which shop did you take it to. I need an alignment also.

Huck

[masraum]

I'm not sure how "frozen torsion bars" is a problem and how that problem would be resolved by replacing them. Broken torsion bars would be a problem and bad bushings would be a problem. What are frozen tb?

a normal sporty alignment is often -1* camber up front and -1.5* camber rear. Caster and camber should be equal side to side. Can you give us more detail on your alignment specs?

I still don't get the "stuck torsion bars".

[wholberg]

Originally posted by Huck
Which shop did you take it to. I need an alignment also.

Huck

I took it to European Performance in Raleigh. They have a good rep in this area.

Masraum: I don't know how torsion bars can be stuck either. Is there an adjusting nut that can be rusted? I have not had a 911 for 15 years, so I am learning or re-learning a lot. That is why I did not have them replace either the bars or the struts. I need to learn more and get under the car and look for myself.

Rear wheels were set to factory specs no problem, which I think is 0 degrees camber, but again, I have manuals coming in the mail which should give me that info. They got one front wheel to -1 but could not get the other wheel to -1, due to a bent strut and the torsion bar?

I forgot to mention that the PO had the car waaay lowered. They raised the car an inch, and it is now close, but not quite, to euro specs.

The car drives great, except for the slight left pull (and I mean very slight). I can live with it until I get under the car this summer and thoroughly go through the suspension.

I will call the shop and get the exact settings, but from what I have read, the stock 18 year old bars are probably due for replacement, and if one of the struts is bent, then I might as well go ahead and replace both because I expect to be driving this car for many years.

Thanks for the feedback.

[cbeers]

For the struts, ditch the Boges and get Bilsteins, you will be VERY happy. I recently replaced my Boge front inserts with Bilstein HD inserts and it was a very nice change. Plus, no more rubbing on my front fender with 16x7s.........

Took about three hours to swap out.

-Chris

[Rot 911]

How well do you trust this guy? How did he discover the torsion bars are frozen and need replaced? Did he pull the rear torsion bar covers? Even if they are frozen in place (which is not that unusual) you would have to remove them to determine if corrosion has set in.

[wholberg]

Originally posted by Kurt V
How well do you trust this guy? How did he discover the torsion bars are frozen and need replaced? Did he pull the rear torsion bar covers? Even if they are frozen in place (which is not that unusual) you would have to remove them to determine if corrosion has set in.

The shop has a good reputation. He said that the torsion bars were frozen in place and should be replaced, but he did not force the issue. I don't know if he pulled the bar covers (I did not know to ask, but I will now).

When I told him I did not want to replace the bars and struts right now, He said fine, that they would get the alignment as close as they could and that I should watch my front tire wear.

[jaydubya]

Never heard of stuck torsion bars either.

If you do need new torsion bars, you should do the fronts and backs at the same time (assuming that you will be going with bigger torsion bars). Increasing the front torsion bar diameter while leaving the rears alone is a recipe for extreme understeer, while the reverse is a recipe for disaster.

I run 22/29 mm hollow Sanders torsion bars on my 911SC. This was by far the best upgrade that I have done. The ride is firmer but very streetable.

Alignment - I run -1.5 and -2.5, but car is set up for autox/track. That said, car handles very well with this setup and have not noticed bad tire wear on my street tires. Most people have trouble getting more than -1 degrees camber on the front... be glad if you have -2

If your struts are really bent, I would replace them before wasting money on an alignment.