Think I may need a lawyer

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Beautiful day yesterday here on the East Coast, so with the top off I head down to Providence to make a few returns, do some shopping. Depending on traffic, I'm doing between 65 and 85 when a red 996 blows by me. I drop it down to 3rd and see if I can catch up, but there's just too much traffic.

3+ miles down the road everyone is on their brakes down to 55, there's a state trooper on the side of the road, the 996 is a bit up in front.

We all pass, Trooper pulls out, catches up to me, hugs my left rear quarter, like 2 feet off it, pulls past me, huge sigh of relief.

Does the same thing to the 996, lights go on, starts pulling him over, and as he does so sticks his arm out window, points at me and wants me to pull over too.

I do, maybe 30 feet past the 996. Trooper gets out, yells, "Back that piece of **** up!" I do, he's talking with the 996, comes up to my car, asks for paperwork, and asks how fast does my car go. this guy is huge and I've got to admit I was pretty shaken. My first internal answer is 140 but I immediately think that number is too high. So I panic (so disappointed in myself) and say about a 100. So he says, "you were doing 100 racing that other car back there. I got a call from an off-duty officer that said two Porsches were racing" and walked away.

I can hear him talk to the guy in the 996, his reg had expired in Nov. 10 minutes later the cop comes back and says he only cited me for civil infraction doing 100, and wrote in his notes that I was racing and admitted to doing 100. Ticket is $350, which while I could cope with, its the points that will ultimately kill me. The truly sad news is that this time I am fairly innocent. Yes, I did try to catch up with the 996, but wasn't doing 100 and wasn't racing.

I've had very good luck in CT and NY with big tickets, but MA is a killer when it comes to tickets, I suspect it has something to do with being the only state that sets insurance rates working directly with the industry.

Any thouhgts? Any good traffic lawyers in the Boston area? Basically the officer intimidated me into corroborating with his story.

[makaio]

Fight it! According to you, you never admitted to doing 100 MPH, just that your car would go that fast. Also, the other officer will have to show up in court as a witness, to attest to the fact that he saw you speeding. Otherwise the officer that cited you has no case.

[79SilverTarga]

So this off duty police office determined you were "racing" how? This off duty police office determined you were going how fast with what calibrated speedometer or radar/laser? This off duty police office provided your license plate # to this patrol officer or was the offiver who stopped you just guessing that it was you who was "racing"? You were the only two Porsches on the road that morning weren't you and therefore you must be guilty. You should fight it, but it is going to be expensive regardless of the outcome. Sorry

[mede8er]

While I can't give you a referral....ask around for a well respected traffic guy...money well spent in your situation....

I know this sucks and I'd be pizzed off also but life is unfair sometimes.......

[rcm]

I would fight and try to find out who the other guy was. Niether were racing so, not guilty as far as that goes. It would be good to discuss with him before court.

Also that trooper has no grounds to use any foul language at all.

I agree with 79silver.
Both officers will have to be there to coberate (sp) thier stories.

[bell]

i was surrounded once by about 7 squad cars because they recieved a phone call that "a honda civic passed me WELL over 100mph" (which was true) from an off-duty cop.....there isn't a damn thing they can do with only a phone call as evidence.....at least here in ohio.
take it to court.....and fight the points, for them to nab you "racing" then they need proof period.....at least in ohio.
i am NOT an lawyer......just played the traffic court game more than the average bear
and even if you admitted to the cop your car does 100mph doesn't mean you were doing 100.......
fight it and you'll win, but i would probably have a lawyer present to ensure that happens.
good luck

[wilke3169]

I do hope the cops don't read this post. This would be pretty tough to defend, "I'm doing between 65 and 85 when a red 996 blows by me. I drop it down to 3rd and see if I can catch up,"... Sounds kinda like racing to me.

[Oldporsche]

Yeah,

Find a car guy lawyer. I wish I had fought every ticket I ever got!

I know I could have beated 3/4 of them.

Good luck,
David Duffield

[IROC]

I'm actually surprised the guy even wrote you a ticket. He, himself, had no proof whatsoever that you were doing anything illegal and then wrote you up for something (the 100 mph) that you never did. Seems to me the ticket he wrote you would be easy to get out of.

I had a cop pull me over once because he claimed they had received a phone call that I was speeding (I wasn't in this rare instance). It actually pissed me off and my typical tact and respect for the authorities went out the window. I asked him if *he* saw me speeding. He said no. I then asked him why he pulled me over if he had no proof that I had done anything wrong. He (in a very terse manner) handed me back my license and registration and said, "Have a nice day" and walked away.

Still pisses me off. Pure harassment.

Mike

[avendlerdp]

I think you can fight and win this one. It does underscore why we take the 5th when pulled over. "How fast where you going" is not a question you answer. Don't lie. Just don't answer. You can say "I'm sorry but I don't want to answer that question sir." and that is the end of it. If the off duty guy wants to show up, their case is better, but since he was not in a patrol car with a calibrated speedo you can poke holes in his testimony as well. Get a lawyer and kick butt on that lame ticket.

-Alex

[lateapex911]

Another "this sucks" story! IMHO.....

First- I follow a few rules when dealing with cops, based on the fact that some are great guys, and some are jerks, just like us.
1- Never admit ANY wrong doing in any specific way.
2- Show respect and try to impart the impression that you are sorry.

The whole "How fast does your car go?" is BS. Write down every last detail of your conversation with every exact word. The comment above about you not admiting the violation is accurate, but if you can't present the exact conversation accurately, it will get lost in the sauce when you get to court.

Other pertinent points:
Did either officer have accurate IDs on both cars?

If not, were both cars in sight of the reporting officer for the entire time of the pursuit?

The fact that the arresting officer did not see the violation is disturbing, might be able to invoke the "hearsay" defense on this.

Also, the "foul" language use is way out of line, as is the very non-professional attitude.

You might want to do a little study of the offense you are being charged with. "Racing" in some states (CT) IIRC, carries the potential for suspension if you are found guilty. You should certainly know the possible outcomes of a guilty verdict, and the definition of "racing" that is on the books of yor state.

Keep in mind that there is no justice in the courtroom...at least no guarantee of it. Be prepared. I have presented my case (in which I was truly innocent of the charges) to the judge, ad been told in chamber that the judge and arresting officer fished together each Wed, and it didn't matter what I said.
On the other hand, I have had cases where I was guilty dismissed totally.

If nothing else, I might hire a lawyer to consult and coach you. The courtroom time may get expensive if they don't call the lawyers first.

[sammyg2]

How fast were you going? Were you going 100?
Your post says you were going between 65 and 85 when the 996 passed you so obviously he was going much faster than you. Your post says you downshifted and accelerated tring to catch up to him. I don't know if I would call that racing, some might. Did you get to 100?

If the ticket if for soething you didn't do, you should fight it if you feel so inclined.
if the ticket is for something you did and got caught, fighting it would be lying and sleazy.

I am not a lawyer. A few years back a friend and me were riding our Ducati's on an interstate and were passing a semi on the left. The semi proceeded to pull into our lane while passing a car in front of him. He both down shifted and pulled thru unharmed. Undoubtedly our speeds were above the posted limit, but only momentarily to save our hides. At that exact moment a trooper on the other side of the freeway saw us passing the semi. A few minutes later he was beside us and pulled us over. He gave us tickets for speeding, racing, reckless driving. Enough points to loose our license. (also the cop was young and me and my freind are in our late 40's with gray beards. he seemed suprised when we pulled off our helments to see that we were not kids.) We both said nothing to the officer. We went to court, I explained all to assistant DA and ultimately it came down to the Officer having no visual evidence or radar print out of our speeds. It was all dropped. But it was a royal pain because it happened 150 miles from where I live and in a small county.

[mambodave]

Originally posted by sammyg2

If the ticket if for soething you didn't do, you should fight it if you feel so inclined.
if the ticket is for something you did and got caught, fighting it would be lying and sleazy.

I respectfully disagree with that statement totally... It doesnt matter if he actually DID do it...They cant prove it...Its not lying if he makes them prove that he did it. And since when is making the police actually prove wrong doing slezy?

not trying to pick a fight here ,but I say fight it.

[JSDSKI]

Originally posted by mambodave
... It doesnt matter if he actually DID do it...They cant prove it...

Hmmm, what is that? The OJ defense? to quote the first part of your statement - the only part that makes sense IMHO - "I respectfully disagree". Shaun84 broke the law. As we all do whenever we do something as silly as trying to catch up to someone on a public highway.

Nothing wrong with fighting the ticket and trying to mitigate its effect on ones life - that's part of the system. But, getting a ticket for one specific event is just the fare for all the times you didn't get busted when you broke the law - not a personal vendetta between you and the law. The officer behaved badly in this situation and that should be handled by his superiors.

Take some responsibility for personal behavior, IMO. Drive like that on a track or AutoX. Not where the "public" can get hurt. Just my 2 cents.

[fintstone]

Find a good lawyer, but in my experience...unless you have witnesses, you are screwed. If the cop did not hesitate to lie on the ticket..by saying you admitted to going 100 when you did not.....he will not hestiate to lie in court and his buddy..."off duty" will back him. He only has to claim he paced you at over 100,

[avendlerdp]

I agree with Mambo! THe way our system works is they need to show you the proof. Going into court and asking them to produce the evidence as per the code is not sleazy at all. WHat's sleazy is a cop writing a bunk hearsay ticket and hoping you will be too busy to fight it.

What was said about the cops and the Judges being pals is often true. I say they are just cops in robes. That is not to say you can't win with a well prepared case. If our officer did not see you do the crime and the one who did was not using the right equipment to clock you I think you will do well.

Alex

[techweenie]

Your word against a trooper = not good.

That the trooper didn't actually witness the racing = pretty good.

I imagine it's not the money but the points against your license that would make this worth fighting.

But you *are* guilty, aren't you? Doesn't this fall into the category of 'not taking responsibility for your actions?'

[gorfllub]

Yeah. Cops suck.

I was heading through the mountains, when I saw this cop come around the corner. My radar detector didnt make a sound, but the cop starts to flip around anyway. (I was speeding, but only by about 5mph)

Anyhow, he seemed to be taking his time turning around, and he didnt have his lights on, so I floor it. I turn down a side road to a lookout point. We pull in about a good mile or 2 in front of the cop. I parked behind a motorhome and went for a walk in the woods. We could see the cop at the car, thinking he was leaving some sort of ticket or something, but didnt.

The unfortunate thing was that there was only 1 way in and 1 way out of this lookout point. So after about 45 mins, we leave (Cop is gone) Of course, he is waiting around the corner for us. Pulls us over and says "had a report of a red porsche speeding down this road. I've been up and down this road, and you are the only porsche I see."

So while he is telling me this, his radio mike falls of his shoulder and hits my car! It makes a loud bang. Boy am I pissed now. Cop all of a sudden is like struck with terror. There was no ding on the car but he then said "have a nice day" and took off. He didnt even finish his story.

You know what half the problem is though? Its the car(s). I was passed by dozens of other cars on that road, but do people call in a brown Astro van? No, they call in the Red sports car. Every Time. I can pull all kinds of illegal moves in my minivan without any consequence, yet I get in trouble in the Porsche even when I dont do anything wrong!

Its a kind of selective discrimination and I hate it.

[porschenut]

You might not have been "racing" according to the legal definition (whatever it is), but by taking the bait and accelerating well over the speed limit (are you sure you weren't doing 100? It's very easy to do in these cars without realizing it) in order to catch him, you could just as easily have been cited for careless driving as well as speeding, reckless endangerment, etc. Sorry, but by all rights you should be found guilty of one of those.

In addition, in many if not most jurisdictions, officers are trained to estimate speed by eye and their judgment is admissible without radar or pacing to back it up. With a racing charge, your exact speed isn't the issue. He challenged you and you engaged him at speeds well in excess of the posted limit. You are both guilty, regardless of whether you find a way to weasel out of it or not.

Having said all that, don't get a lawyer until you first plead not guilty. The prosecutor will approach you and offer a plea bargain, as they ALWAYS do. By then he will already have seen both officers' notes and will probably offer something very attractive, like a non-moving violation with no points. If he doesn't, then consult a lawyer if you feel like spending the money. Just FYI though, your legal fees will be far greater than the fine for the reduced charge he offers.