Question - How important is it to accept AMEX?
 

These guys are the highway robbers of the 20th century. I'm thinking of dropping them completely, as they drive up my costs, which drives up my prices.

How important is Amex to everyone else? I personally don't use them.

Thanks in advance for your input on this...

-Wayne

I only use it to buy online. They will chase any fraud to the ends of the earth.

I used to use it exclusively. However, I switched to a Debit card. After a transaction gone bad I found I had little/no protection with the card. I may go back to AMEX for that protection.

What % of customers use AMEX?

I use AMEX for biz travel, hotel & entertainment, rental cars, etc. MC / VISA for personal stuff.

edit: I think that the loss protection on Debit Cards has improved recently, can anyone comment??

I have been very pleased with Discover, which I use almost exclusively. Their fraud protection is good (I don't mind their calls verifying card usage at all). Also, I hear that their costs to retailers are lower than most.

I have never seen the advantage to having an AMEX card, and therefore have never had one.

Tom

Bill, Most debit cards have the $0 or $50 liability limit for a stolen card or account #. However, if you get ripped by a crap vendor recourse is typically nonexistant.

If it's different between banks I'd like to know as well. BTW, my card is issued by a Credit Union.

Is it against their ToS to charge a surcharge?

I know it is with VISA/MC, but I know some comptuer parts vendors charge 2-3% extra if using AMEX, though they may technically be breaking the rules.

i don't take it. they just pull out a visa or m/c when i say no. bad enough with the fees on those.

My company (a car club) collects annual dues. We see about 20% using VISA, 41% using MC, 26% using AMX, 12% writing checks.

I will always accept AMX as their users are more likely to renew and spend money on merchandise. I'll pay their higher charges as I am still making money...

Nobody ever said you had to take every form of payment...

Then again, you could deal with it until an item is returned for refund, and make the AMEX holder fork out the 2-3% or whatever it is you'd get charged for a return transaction...

I used to sort of LIKE to use AMEX for my business expenses. It kept things seperated, and virtually all of the restaurants (that I used for business entertainment), hotels, airlines, and rental car companies are feeding from the corporate trough anyway...
That all makes a LOT less sense when you have your own business (as i do now), as opposed to working for a big Corporation, as I did most of my working life.

I use it almost exclusively and shop around based on that - fraud protection with a monthly pay off - no brainer. The Platinum card comes with so many free benefits it is amazing the upgrades you get everywhere - they itemize and analyze my charge statements etc. Great stuff!!

Plus I am not fiscally responsible enough for revolving debt.

Debit accounts are dangerous IMO - somebody gets ahold of that you are screwed and some banks offer no protection on personal accounts attached to it.

-Jeff

wayne when i shop with you, it is my MC backed check card, or my good ole visa.

i dont even have one for costco.

I have never even applied for Amex. They offer nothing to me that I can't get from a solid Visa/MC. They DO rob you blind, I always found that when analyzing the different cards and carriers.........

As for fees for any card, you do know that you can shop around on those too right?

-Chris

I only use AMEX to buy things online. They have the best fraud protection.

Visa has gone to bat for me a couple of times when I got fraudulently charged. Don't see a need for AMEX....they're just another credit card company to me, and there are plenty more where they came from.

Amex has awesome customer protection. I bought a new iMac (I should've stuck with my PC) two years ago and it had a problem with the motherboard. I tried to send it back to the distributor and they said call Apple. I called Apple and they said call the distributor. I called Amex and all was solved...

They also have great perks with amex points.

I know it stinks for vendors, but it's great for customers.

-dc

Wayne, I own a business and have vowed to never accept Amex because of fees charges. Any person who has had to be on the accepting side knows what a cost it is, and wouldn't scoff at a business not accepting. On the other hand I have heard great things from card holders.
I have found that the only clients (of mine, at least) who would insist on using any particular card have all of their other forms of credit maxxed out, and these are the clients that always seem to give me headaches.
-Jeremy

Not really - it's the customers who end up paying in the long run, in the form of higher prices.

-Wayne

Wayne, why would you want to limit the ways your customers can pay you? You're 99% down the field, the parts are in the shopping cart, Performance Products and Automotion aren't getting this sale you hope, and then all of a sudden comes the red flag, you don't accept the customer's preferred form of payment because it cuts into your operating margin?

I don't know any of the details of your business on the inside, but for most small businesses, revenue growth is the driver of everything-- it's all about sales, sales, sales, because once you cover your fixed costs, your net income increases dramatically. So what if Amex charges 6% if they allow you to generate additional sales that carry a 50% gross margin?

The other guys take Amex. What does that tell you?

I cant handle revolving credit either, so I like it. When I was a small biz owner we did not take it because of the fees. They use to call and practically cuss me when I told them I did not want to take it unless they lowered there fees - they got really upset. I have used the card many times when they charged an additonal fee for ames, usually because it was something for the company and I did not care. Mabe you could charge a small % for using it... or would that be to complicated?

But I get a big portion of that back in perks and am much more comfortable buying stuff on line with it.

I've got a buddy in upper middle management at a very large grocery chain. They reviewed axing AMEX because the charges are so much higher until they discovered their amex customers were their most profitable customers because they bought wine and steak and gouda cheese, etc... Keep in mind this is a business that operates on like a 2% GPM - theoretically their amex customers should cost them money.

Your customers own BMWs and Porsches and they use Amex credit cards. Have you looked at it on a profit/customer basis?

-dc

I carry Discover for all my purchases, and carry M/C for the vendors that don't accept Discover. The Discover fetish is all about the cashback.
Never had a need for Amex.

I wouldn't worry about it. If you don't take AMEX, your customer will just put it on their VISA. I an't image anyone with just an AMEX card.

derickc is spot on about the buying trends of Amex cardholders. I found that to be true when I was working in the wine industry in Napa. Amex holders would spend more, but less often. Overall, it was worth it to us to keep Amex.......

Ask your rep for a breakdown/reports, they are all too happy to show you what great cardholders they have!

-Chris

I also use AMEX for all online purchases...I would strongly recommend you bite the bullet on this one...there was an "AMEX revolution" some years ago and many retailers paid dearly for it in lost relationships....

FYI, never pay online with a debit card. Your rights are restricted (depending on issuing bank) and an unscrupulous (or security inept) vendor can wipe out your linked checking account.

Just my $0.02. I work in the banking industry.

As far as AMEX goes, never used it.

There are some assumptions there that are not quite correct. Nothing I sell carries a margin as high as 50%. Performance Products and Automotion typically charge more than 20% what I do, covering any and all increases in Amex fees. And the difference between Amex and Visa/MC fees are significant - enough to buy a 911 with...

Also, as sales go up, so does all of my fixed costs...

-Wayne

So, you're saying that you would not shop at Pelican if we didn't take Amex?

-Wayne

Ha, you'd think that. As a company that charges hundreds of thousands of dollars through Amex, you'd think that they would at least give me an account rep - nope.

-Wayne

I guess then that PayPal (which we do accept) is the exact opposite of Amex...

-Wayne

I'm not following you. Opposite as in lower profit? I'm just not sure what you mean.

I have two credit cards and only two: an Amex plain old green ("Member since 1971") and a MasterCard. I'm perfectly willing to use the MasterCard when a vendor says, "We don't accept American Express," but I frankly have to say, I automatically categorize those vendors as second-rate. One step up from the bottom feeders who used to say, "We don't accept credit cards, but if you show me one and let me copy down the number, you can write me a check." (I think that's essentially illegal now.)

It's an image thing. American Express is the midsize-luxury-car (and up) of credit cards. MasterCard is the Chevy, the Hyundai, the Corolla.

Besides, I charge everything I possibly can on Amex because of their Membership Rewards frequent-flyer (and other stuff) program.

Image. If Mid-America and Performance accept Amex and you don't, you're a second-rater. Yes, they charge the vendor a lot more, but they're charging for the best product on the market. That's how it works. They're not "thieves" any more than Porsche is.

Stephan

All right Wayne, you've thrown the discussion open. Why do your fixed costs increase as revenue increases, on a percentage of sales basis?

More staff to handle inventory, packing & shipping? When you pass a particular sales number, you have to hire an additional employee who's not operating at full capacity, so your General & Administrative margin increases until he's working to the max?

More inventory carrying cost, in terms of bank charges, physical space, more utilities to heat, cool and light said space? As a reseller of Porsche parts I bet you have one of the highest "dollars per square foot" outside of luxury retailers- many small items that carry a big ticket.

If I were you, I'd have a JD Edwards/Peoplesoft enterprise-class inventory management/GL/logistics system. Does the cost of administering your system increase with your sales?

Wayne,

I would call your bank and/or credit card processing company (most banks also use a third party processor, part of the delay in getting the funds into your bank account) listed on your monthly statement and get a hold of someone. You DO have a rep, regardless of the run around they may give you. Do you think that if you wanted to ADD Amex to the cards you already accept that they would tell you there is no rep????? They are giving you a load of BS!


Go get 'em Wayne!


-Chris

My AMEX customers are more affluent too.

You'd continue to get MY business as I frequent your board and believe in supporting your 'concept'...however, am I your 'average' customer...only you can answer that one.....:confused:

Keep Amex please
 

I hope you stick with Amex. I use it for everything I can. I wouldn't go as far to say I'd stop buying at Pelican, but it would be an inconvenience for me. All things equal, I will buy where I can use my Amex card.

My company does a pretty significant amount of business with American Express where we charge them roughly $11M per year. They wanted to pay with an American Express card and we said sure, and are passing the cost of them using their card back to them. Kind of back a$$ wards, but it works, we get paid timely, and they get to pay with their card.

Now back to your question Wayne. I am not saying I have never done this, but we know sometimes our "significant others" ( I would have said wives, but didn't want to upset anyone) don't always know about our purchases. I have an AMEX Card, and the bills come to me at work. Of course a seperate Visa or MC or Discover could be used the same way, but it keeps me out of trouble due to the fact I have to pay the AMEX off every month, I don't go over board on spending.

Just my thoughts...

I love my AMEX. I have one for my personal use, one for my wife's and one for my business expenses. One bill, one statement and seperate charging information for each card. If you're a volume user I can't see using anything else. The benefits and service are terrific.

John