Tie rods and ball joints...

[Nine9six]

I will soon be installing turbo tie rods and new ball joints in my 87. Can I use the pickle forks for removal of both the ball joints and tie rods, or do I need to spend the bucks for our sponsors tie rod removal tool? If a pickle fork can be used, what size would I need?
Any direction would be greatly appreciated.
Paul

[Rot 911]

Yes and yes. I bought a cheap Harbor Freight set for 6 dollars that work just fine.

[FrayAdjacent911]

Gee, I'm going to do the ball joints on my '70 T tomorrow... I will be borrowing the castle nut socket from a local Pelicanhead.

Will I need anything else? Tips, tricks, hints?

[patkeefe]

Matt:
Pickle fork or a wrecking pry bar to get them loose from the strut. You will also need Band-Aids and ice bags for the beating you're going to take trying to get those ball joint nuts, which the factory torqued at 180 ft-lb, off. That four pin tool is lame, at best. Bentley also recommends new cotter pins, ball jont to strut taper pin bolt, and that crazy washer on the bottom of the joint.

An impact wrench will make your life easier.

Good luck!
Pat

[FrayAdjacent911]

Pat, it doesn't sound TOOOOOO difficult! I'll probably have to grab a pry bar, I think dad has one.

For the torque, a good 3 foot lead pipe over the socket greatly increases the ease of breaking tight things loose! Dad also has a torque wrench, but I'll have to see if it goes to 180 ft-lb...

And the 70 didn't have the taper pin bolt in it, just a straight bolt... so hopefully there won't be headaches there!

[Nine9six]

Hey Fray,
I really dont mind you hijacking my post...You should get the socket for removing the castlenut on the bottom of the ball joint, so you dont beat the piss outta the nut. More importantly, you will need it for re-torqueing the nut back to 180 ft lbs after replacing the ball joints.

[patkeefe]

996:
Sorry to be a hijacking conspirator! I did mine in a vise with the arms out. I guess with the arms in the car, you have to yank so hard you could pull the car off the jack stands, so be careful. I used a three foot pipe wrench to get them off, with a four foot cheater bar on it. These are the absolute toughest fasteners to get loose. I tried to use the tool to get them off, but it was shearing the tabs off the tool. I did see a thread where someone used a 4x4 hub wrench (almost identical diameter and tabs, but a stouter tool) to get them off and on.

Pat

[Nine9six]

Pat,
I have an air compressor and 1/2" drive impact to use with the socket to remove the castle nuts. I could certainly see where you would have to be careful not to pull the car off the stands with a 3' cheater bar!
Now that I think of it, I will be lowering the car before torqueing to the 180 ft. lbs. spec.
P.S. Dont you mean hijacking conspirator insergent? :-)

[KTL]

My two cents...........

While the pickle fork is good when removing stuff you intend to replace? It's a terrible tool to use when you're simply disconnecting tie rods or ball joints to do other work. My point is, buy a better tool that can do both jobs. I bought this tool



from OTC (www.otctools.com) to disconnect the tie rod ends for the clutch work i'm doing on my Laser. It works EXCELLENT. One of the rod ends was stubborn and did not want to come out of the steering arm. Really had to crank on the OTC press tool bolt to get it to pop out. If I had been using a pickle fork, that rod end would have been trashed for sure.

So you'll spend a little more for the press tools, but it'll come in handy for work where you'd prefer not to destroy the part you're using. BTW, I used the pickle fork when I did my 911 tie rod and ball joint replacement. Did a nice job of wrecking the parts with it. I look forward to using the press tool in the future. But, if you decide to go with the pickle fork, get the smaller one. The wide one is just big enough where it's not a tight enough fit to push the ball joint out of the strut. I got mine at Sears.

As far as the ball joint socket? Do a search and you'll see the socket is recommended for installing the ring nut. It's not well suited for removing the ball joint ring nut. Why? Because the impact wrench beats the crapola out of the notches in the socket. Just like patkeefe said. I too have been there, done that.

So use a pipe wrench, chisel or dremel cutoff wheel to remove the ring nuts. They're probably rusted on there. So cutting them off with a dremel (you partially cut the nut and then split it open with hammer and chisel) is probably your best bet. Sure, you end up replacing the big ring nuts. But they're most likely going to get wrecked trying to get them loose anyway. Seems to me like these stubborn nuts should be spec'd as a "non-reuseable" fastener.

[450knotOffice]

I would suggest pulling the A-arms first. It'll only take you a little longer to pull them out since you will have already disconnected the struts from the A-arms. Pull off the torsion bar adjustment cap, pull out the torsion bar, remove three bolts in front and one in back, and then simply pull the A-arm out of the crossmember. It's that easy.

Once the A-arm is off, put it in a vise and have someone hold onto it just to steady it. Then take any decent air gun and that 4 pronged socket and the castle nut will spin right off.

It worked for me. Two A-arms lost their ball joints in about 3 minutes total.

When I tried to pull them off while the A-arms were still in the car, I got nowhere except close to pulling the car off the jacks.

[Nine9six]

KTL,
What is the tool actually called? I searched the OTC website on "tie rod" and got three pages of catalogue tools, none of which were the tool you posted in your photo. How about tool # if you have it?
Thanks for the guidance.
Paul

[fastpat]

It's in the 6295 front end service set.
http://www.otctools.com/newcatalog/detail.php3?id=308

I couldn't find it separately.

[Moke81]

I just did both myself, the tie-rods were a PITA, don't be shy about beating on the strut to remove it. And thanks to a fellow Pelicanite with the removal tool and the pickle fork from Sears they came apart. The ball joints were easier, just be prepared to buy new castle nuts, I used a hammer and chisel to remove them, don't use the special socket for removing, installation only.

Moke
1981SC

[KTL]

Sorry guys. Should have posted more info.

The tool I have is #6297 by SPX/OTC.



Funny how you can't find the tool on the manufacturer's site but you can find it elsewhere? WTF?

http://www.toolsource.com/ost/product.asp?sourceid=NO+SOURCE&dept%5Fid=500&pf%5Fid=94185&mscssid=RBF1HP4HCK819L9L3A49LD132JX52X78

Dunno if that messy link will work. So go to toolsource.com and type in "ball joint" in the search field. You should get a list of tools and find Ball Joint Separator under the SPX Corporation/otc list.

I think toolsource is actually where I got mine. Can't seem to find the receipt for it. But the website looks familiar to me. Or maybe it was handsontools.com

OTC press @ handsontools.com

There's other companies that make a similar see-saw lever tool. The OTC one is okay, but it's a little wobbly. Could use some shims to tighten up the pivot point. Hands On Tools has a cheaper one made by S&G. Although the price seemed too good to be true? Plus the S&G one is not as versatile like the OTC with two pivot choices.

S&G Tool Ball Joint & Tie Rod Press

This one's good for

Tie Rods Only

I know the pickle fork is effective, but I didn't like how it wrecked stuff. Sometimes you need to disassemble stuff without trashing the grease boots. Pickle fork is a wrecker.

[rlh930]

Good luck getting the castle nut off. I ruined the official Porsche castle nut remover tool trying to remove the castle nut with an impact gun. Semi-ruined the control arm trying to get the nut off with a pipe wrench - I broke off the little locator tab that orients the ball joint on the control arm.

The castle nut finally succumbed to a Dremel tool, but I had to take the control arm in to get a new locating tab welded on. While I was at it, I did what I should have done in the first place - took the other control arm in to the shop and had them replace thee ball joint. Of course this was on a '73, so my castle nut had 14 more years than yours to get surly.

[rbcsaver]

I posted my experiences and pics on Rennlist last year on my experiences and suggestions. You may want to search there too. You will need alot of heat and a BFH also for the BJs. I bought a 4wd axle socket for $10 at Advance Auto that is very close to the castle nut. Use a breaker bar and a floor jack to hold the socket up against the castle nut. Of course make sure the car is well supported on jack stands.
regards,
Steve