I owned to na 911's ('77 S Targa and '87 Carrera coupe) before buying my current 1986 911 Turbo (~80K miles). With the exception of having spent more money on HP upgrades (bigger turbo, tial wastegate and intercooler) my other maintenance costs have been about the same. Admitedly the heat generated by the extra horsepower will eventually take a toll and cause you to have to do engine work sooner than an na. But, there is absolutely, positively no sensation like a 911 on boost! As far as lag and throttle response, its like any other CIS vehicle until it hits boost. Boost is like a drug, addicts complain that they can't get enough of it or soon enough. With a few upgrades these older 911 Turbo's are quick to change their responsiveness. The biggest obstacle to overcome is the driver's ability to manage what he has strapped himself/herself into. You have to learn how to manage the beast, and resist the urge to immediately go out and drive it like any other 911...because it just isn't.

I love my former na 911's, but I would never want to be without my boost.

David
1986 911 Turbo

What I want to know and I think what the original question for this thread is " why do people spend 930 money to have a NA car that will do the same thing" We have all seen the $60.000.00 flared fender cars with the 300 plus HP twin plug engine that is "cammie' or "peaky" instead of "turbo lag" and there is a reason people do it and it is not because they or saving money or can not handle the power and they or not meeting racing regs. I have 930 money in my 67S which makes maybe 170hp but I am doing it for the feel of the SWB high strung engine car that is still to fast for more than 60% on the street. Once again I also want a 930 ( and a fiberglass "76" 308 anda, anda):D

Didn't you perform the road test on the Turbo Carrera for Car & Driver in 1976 or 1977? C&D reported a 0-60 time of 4.9 seconds, as I recall, which is still a pretty good time. But, then R&T reported a "badly slipping" clutch in their road test of the same model, which prevented them from bettering the high six second range. Could it be that C&D burned out the clutch on the same road test car before R&T got a crack at it? My 3.0 makes expensive clutch smells if I launch it too quickly.

The problem with all Turbos before '89 is the 4-speed trans. It is a sturdy device, which Porsche probably fitted to the car in order to homologate it for racing. Porsche tried to mask this problem with a massive cast iron clutch in the 3.3 cars, in place of the aluminum clutch in the 3.0 cars. But, the gearing is just hopelessly ill suited for driving around town, no matter what you do. Andial offers an 8:39 ring and pinion, which is supposed to help. John Walker, a frequent contributor to this board, seems to have found a fix in fitting a 915 in his car.

I drive my '79 930 daily. I've always heard people complain about the 4 speed and in-town driving. However, I have NEVER had the gearing of the car bother me. In fact, in stop-&-go traffic, I prefer the 4 speed - maybe it's due to less gear changing compared to other cars??? Turbo lag in traffic is not an issue, since I'm not trying to get to 60 mph in under 5 seconds and the car can keep up with traffic just fine out of boost... What am I missing?

Also, doesn't the suspension geometry (not just the turbo) affect how the car handles compared to n/a 911? That's what I was told last week while having my suspension tweaked by a well respected Porsche "seter-upper".:)

- Skip

I see lots of turbo proponents talking about speed, etc, but I don't think any of them answered my question: is it appreciably harder to throttle steer a turbo v. na? I don't give a crap about how fast it is on the street or against an suv...what about on the track? I would love some more hp to have a better chance in the straights, but I don't want to lose any of the fine control in the corners. thoughts from those that know?

Doesn't anybody remember the Porsche engineer that declared 930s were properly steered using the throttle ?

DerickC:
Thanks for the clarification. I was a bit confused on your use of the efficiency term last evening. I agree the benefit of use of simultaneous super and turbochargers is pointless for Porsche applications; really it's best suited for big trucks or stationary equipment which is rev limited to low RPM. I would still imagine that compression regardless of the type of turbomachinery will still produce x amount of heat per specific volume of air compressed. The whole point of the turbo is to increase the volumetric efficiency of the cycle ("how much charge can you pack into the cylinder").

Now, if I can just find a lower output unit and kick up my weak 180 HP to 230 or so, and bring the boost in at 2500 RPM, I'll be happy. If not, then the rebuild will be NA.
Pat

No offence skipdup, I think you've got a great car...

But it sounds like you're paying for a turbo without using it (for daily driving). My point exactly...

Makes an excellent track car though.

Nonetheless I'd go for one for daily driving... just 'cause I want to (I'm sure I don't represent the average driver - but then again, who wants to be called average).

that's how you steer any 911...

Did anyone mention looks? Maybe it is a silly answer but for us nongear heads, I think it is something we consider.

I like the turbo look but love the look of the impact bumper N/A cars 74-89 ( i think)and really love the 73 RS. Oh, the 993 NA are really nice to look at too.

Honestly I couldn't afford a Turbo but really never wanted one so I guess I am lucky. There all great right down the line:911, 930,928,912,914,944. Heck, I am even starting to like the look of the 996. Can you really go wrong? I don't think so.

My next will be a 914 for sure for it's uniqueness.

David

Re: why are people afraid to buy 930s
 

Thank you

wow... so much misinformation.... kinda scary...


I see lots of turbo proponents talking about speed, etc, but I don't think any of them answered my question: is it appreciably harder to throttle steer a turbo v. na? I don't give a crap about how fast it is on the street or against an suv...what about on the track? I would love some more hp to have a better chance in the straights, but I don't want to lose any of the fine control in the corners. thoughts from those that know?


I had the opportunity to drive a EFI 3L then my CIS 3L and now my turbo cIS 3L..

well... nostaic... i would say its harder... but... the drop in throttle response from preturbo-baekit seemed about the same amount as EFI- CIS.

(i had a month between the EFI car and the Turbo car... so my memory might be a little off)

so unfortunately for me... CIS and a turbo makes you add an input mid corner and WAIT ever so slightly for a response


But if your not putting it together a 20 year old kit in your backyard.... you can make a Almost lag free system with great drivability.

I never said it was only a daily driver. :)

escape velocity
 

yep,nobody would want one of these :rolleyes:


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1061449904.jpg


it's not just a car, it's my life sucks escape pod!

david 89 turbo cab

Yeah I don't know who would want one of these either!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1116283928.jpg

Daily driver and occasional therepy session.

:D

Apart from my limited budget, I do prefer the NA cars; they look cleaner, have a nicer rear end....

However in terms of performance, both cars have their strengths. For example last weekend my local club did a run and one piece of road was tight and very twisty (but slightly damp).

It was the kind of road that has you in 2nd or 3rd at 5-6000rpm; I was able to literally blow the following 930 away.

I could not think of a better car than mine in such conditions.

But back on the h/way, man he was gone........


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1116287849.jpg

Ummm, pleasingly plump.http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/wat1.gif

Of course, I rather like this one, however, she belongs to another. Sigh;)

http://images6.fotki.com/v162/photos...SCN1636-vi.jpg

I'd rather have the speedster too,well maybe, even though they are not turbo.

I prefer hard tops. The way I drive I want the security of a solid structure around my head.