3.0 Normal Aspitared to Turbo Engine
 

Hi guys.

What I need to know and to do to make a normal aspirated 3.0 engine to a turbo engine.

I need to change the CIS stocks pistons for turbo pistons?
I need turbo CIS injectors?
What another info.

I have Wayne's book, workshop manuals, etc.

Please help me with this.

Thanks.
Nitro.

There are kits available to do this with no internal engine mods.
Do a search on "RFONG" or "SC Turbo"

Contact "Sammy Gore"...he did a 3.0 turbo and used the stock engine and pistons.....

Before you think about any turbo application you need to make some decisions.

Two ways to look at it:
1) how much boost can a stock engine safely take....... or
2) what modifications are necessary to run X amount of boost.

If you want to know how much boost a stock 3 liter can take without sacrificing reliability or longevity, we can help you. If you want to know what has to be done to a 3 liter to run 2 bar, you are probably on your own, maybe Juan or some of the other horsepower junkies can help with that.

Here's a partial answer:
a stock 3 liter can take .5 bar non intercooled safely, with little adjustments to the fuel delivery and timing, and no other mechanical changes. That should get you somewhere in the 260 to 280 hp range which is a big deal when compared to a stock 3 liter.
Some folks have hit 9 psi safely but that is on earlier, lower CR engines and have suplimental fuel devices and distributor advance modifications.

I'm at .5 bar and may increase it slightly, but I know I am getting closer to the safe limit with my current configuration and I am not in a hurry to eat into my reliability cushion given the quality of pump gas available in So Cal.
I took my engine apart to replace the dilavar head studs after running the turbo for a year and found no evidence of turbo-related wear or damage whatsoever.

If you have a bug to run significantly higher boost or higher hp, you will need to make serious changes.

Hey Sammy - at about what RPM does the boost kick in on your motor?

do a search first,there are a lot of posts on this subject with tons of info.You can turbo your 3.0 using stock 930 parts for less then $2000.00 if you shop wisely.The biggest problem you`ll have is finding a working solution to draining the oil from the turbo because using the stock 930 headers and turbo won`t allow gravity drain into the cam cover.

Depends, if I roll on the throttle in a higher gear and kind of bog the engine I see positive manifold pressure at 2700.
If I nail it in a lower gear I see boost at around 3000.
The difference is the time it takes to spool and the time it takes for the pressure to get all the way from the manifold, down that long skinny little tube to the pressure gauge.

When I nail the throttle in 2nd gear at around 3000 rpm it hits redline pretty darn quick so we are not talking about alot of lag.

Mikey drove my car before I had all the bugs out. It was making good power at .4 bar but if I remember right we heard some pinging after about the 5th hard accelleration run. It doesn't do that anymore. Since then I got it running just right and have increased the boost a little :)

One of these years I'm going to install a custom intercooler but I'm in no hurry for that. At the boost level I'm running and the efficiency I'm getting out of the rayjay the heat of compression isn't that big of a factor, yet.

Sam - I sent you a PM. Thanks.

Uh Oh.........another slipery slope.......

;)

Hmmmmm....finish the Vram on Ruby......then a turbo for Bluebird......AHHHHHHHHHHHHH......:eek:

This place costs me an arm and a leg.........:D

i have a old style BAE manifold adapter on EBAY.. i can cut a deal for a pelican;)

its always nice to convert a little SC into a snake in the grass

For the moment, I have a Evo II camshafts in order from camgrinder. The 3.0 is a stock engine with stock compression. The engine is from 1979. The only modification that it have right now is a stainless steel CIS air box, A big bore throttle body and hydraulic chain tensioners, MSD 6AL and Accel 140001 Coil. I will made custom MSD spark plug cables. I think that .5 bar is cool for the street. The draining the turbo oil, I can deal with that problem. A intercooler is a great idea. The SC have turbo tail, so the intercooler will fit nicely.

The question is, What size of turbo I need?

If I want to go with higher boost, I need to use low compression pistons? Maybe from an original 911 Turbo or 930 Turbo engine?

Nitrometano

Sí...tienes que cambiar los pistones Stock del 3.0 litros por pistones Low Compression . Tienes que cambiar el sitema por injectores electricos e instalar una nueva computadora y rabiza de cableria nueva. Ademas de adquirir las turbinas.
hay mucha informacion en este site pata la transformacion

VicSmileWavy

Uh-oh. English alert. No fair to us non-worldly types who can't speak anything other than our native tongues. ;)

I'd like to know what this says - my college-days Spanish ain't making it.

Vic, puedo usar pistones JE o conseguir de 911 Turbo o 930 Turbo que sean low compression, tal como un 7.5.1?

Nitrotanslate program from spanish to english:

Sí...tienes que cambiar los pistones Stock del 3.0 litros por pistones Low Compression . Tienes que cambiar el sitema por injectores electricos e instalar una nueva computadora y rabiza de cableria nueva. Ademas de adquirir las turbinas.
hay mucha informacion en este site pata la transformacion

"Yes...you need to change the stock 3.0 liter pistons with low compression pistons. Need to change the system for electronic injectors and install a new computer with a new wiring harness. Also that adquiring the turbines, there is much information in this site for the transformation."

:D Thanks. I understood a bit of what was said, but wasn't sure. Keep in mind this thread is about the 3.0 CIS engine; it has no electronics - not, at least, like the 3.2. And it seems that according to those here who have converted their 3.0 engines to turbos, that there was no need to change the pistons in order to obtain a lower compression ratio. The BAE turbo seems to operate with either the 8.5:1 compression of the 1978 and 1979 3.0 engines, or the higher 9.3:1 compression in the 1980-1983 3.0 engines.

Nitro

There has been previous attempts to do this with Porsche engines. You can ask about this to Julio Figueroa or Raffi Porsche. Thay have seen the damage done to this convertions when Hi Compression Pistons and a hi/ Comp. Ratio have been conbined .
A 7.5 to 1 ratio and low compression Pistosns will be Ideal. I have seen blown engines that had the H/comp Pistons and ratio 8.5 and beyond.

Yes you can do it ..but the engine life expectancy is short

VicSmileWavy

Vic, Have you read the experiences of others....who have had good results and longevity????

Longevity is one of the issues here because the car is for street use. I have a 1972 911 T. I'm the owner since 7 years and the car is daily driven. I use the car the 7 days of week. Is a great car. The longevity is the element that make this car to live all the time. I want the same for the 3.0. Maybe not to much like the 911T, but closer to it.

I was thinking (or is a good idea) to change the CIS to 3.4 liter air intake system or use TWM individual throttle bodies (like the webers 3C) and make the air delivery system, or simply keep the CIS and add a suplementary fuel injection.

Let me know some opinions. I'm a carburetor guy. I did not know too much about fuel injection.

Vic, what boost were they running in these engines that experienced reduced life?
There are at least 6 people on this board running turbochargers on 3 liter engines and stock pistons, one of them was converted in 1982 and has run reliably ever since. That is what I would consider reliable.
My own engine, a 9.3-1 CR, ran for almost a year under boost before I took it apart and inspected it for unrelated reasons. I found absolutely no damage whatsoever and I know what to look for. If life expectancy was going to be reduced I would see at least sone evidence of it after that period of time. Now if someone blew up an engine it could be attributed to many things, some completely unrelated to the actual boost. Maybe they ran too lean or whatever.

I agree that you can't run 1 bar with 9.3 to 1 compression pistons using pump gas on a stock 3 liter and maintain full reliability without changing many parts, but running .5 bar can be done reliably and has been done. Many times. It is documented.

BTW, just for fun, does anyone want to post the compression ratio of a new Porsche turbo engine?

sammy

The guys and Cars I meant are racing Cars. Down here the heat is a Killer:mad: Maybe Nitrometano Know some of this Cars..!

This is a 3.2 F. F. Injected
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1116348117.jpg

How do you like thsi 3 rotos Mazda
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1116348257.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1116348380.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1116348395.jpg

Cordially

Vic

I saw some of that cars on TV. The pictures are taken in Salinas Speedway.

Hey nitro Do you have a shop in PR or an Internet site for Mecanica Herodes?

Vic SmileWavy

Not like that. Mecanica Herodes is society that one friend and I we have. We repair cars, a/c systems, boats, or whatever. To make some money to pay the studies. May be in a future we make a auto repair shop. The name comes alive one day (like 4 years ago) that we have replacing the brakes from a Toyota Corolla. The present project is making a Geo Prizm turbocharger. The only thing that we have not already install is the intercooler because we need to cut the bumper to fix it. That because the intercooler was taken from a Mack Truck. There was so big (4ft long) that we make 4 intercoolers of 8 lines each from the original. We sold the rest of the intercoolers. That is the history.

Hey Nitro

Are you a Mayor in Mechanical Engener. An Intercooler from a Mack..? That's big Stuff

Vic SmileWavy

We buy the Mack intercooler for $100. It looks like new. The pieces that me make we sold it at $125 each. So we gain $375 for that intercooler. In other words, the intercooler that we will use cost us $0. Because we recover the money that spend on it. My skills are BA in Social Sciences and 2 years in the law school. My friend skills are 3 year of civil engineer from the UPR Mayaguez Campus, auto technician, a/c technician, fuel injection technician, computer technician and at the present he is study diesel mechanic. All from Automeca. My mechanic skills are learned from the street, in the drag racing sport, other mechanic friends, books, internet, forums, magazines, experience, etc, etc, etc. I'm planning to finish the law school and then study auto techincian to take the licence.

SmileWavy

i bet i have the most miles!

Hey Nick, what size of turbocharger do you have?

i have a rebuilt Rajay .50

Nick - got your PM. Msg'd you back...

I have not found yet a 7.5.1 aftermarket pistons for the SC. I'm thinking to make the wrist pin bushing modification that consist (in my case)moving the center of the bushing to the side of the rod bearings. This will reduce the compresion and with that I, can use the stock pistons with a lower compression ratio.

don't a few 930 guys bump there CR up to have better drivability?

I think a common mod is to use SC cams to increase low-end off-boost torque.