Rennaire procooler really drop vent temps by 20 degrees??
 

thinking hard about this..i've read the threads. i've got the sanden rotary already..not sure if i have updated barrier hose or not - they can't be original, definitely replaced (is there a way to tell for sure?)

anyway, i appear to only have the rear condenser..if there is one in the front, i'll be damned if i know where it is..my evaporator and blower motor all work fine. if just adding a $300 procooler will honestly drop my vent temps a true 20 degrees..i'm way satisfied with that. any testimonials on adding just the procooler for a 20 drop? i think i;d be willing to do it for even 10 degrees!
ryan

I had a procooler on a '78 and it did help, but it was not a Miracle Worker. What you have to keep in mind is that if the system is working properly, the Procooler will lower the vent temps (how much probably varies). If, on the other hand, your system has a problem, like a slow leak, clogged fins on the evaporator or condenser, poor compressor, the procooler will probably not make you see any difference. In other words, it will not 'fix' a problem, only 'help' a normally operating system.
Good luck, and post your results-

Ryan: I've got a ProCooler, and I'm very happy with the results. 20 degrees? Not likely, but it's definitely helped.

Also, the Sanden is NOT a rotary condenser. Go to their web page and you'll find out that it's a wobble plate, piston compressor. As far as I know, the only true rotary is the Seiko.

Do a search here on the board. I think Jim Sims (our resident a/c guru) posted something on how to tell whether you have barrier hoses. The bottom line is that you should not waste your time working on the a/c without either (a) knowing the hoses are barrier, or (b) installing barrier hoses yourself.

If you have a front condenser it's in the very front of the car. It's easiest to see it if you kneel down in front of the car, and look up. It's protected by a mesh screen, and it's behind the "skid bar" or whatever that curved tube is in the front that protects the underside of the car from steep driveways. Also, if you look inside the trunk, in the front right corner, you should see a large cooling fan that pulls air across the condenser.

Good luck.

Ditto. 20 degrees? No way. It does help. Moving, I have high 30's vent temps on 134 with a stock system and a procooler. Biggest issue for me is airflow over the condesor in traffic; some folks have added small 12v fans, which seems like a logical improvement.

How do you think this would work?

New lines, condensors cleaned, Sanden 507, R134a, small fans attached to decklid condensor.

Waste of time to get procooler or make one?

Small fans are prolly a waste of time. Add a condenser and a Procoler.

Add a condenser, barrier hoses and charge with R-12.

See the following:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=176468&highlight=conden ser+dimensions

I beg to differ with Scottb on the fan, when used in conjunction with an additional condenser it does provide some support during stop and go traffic.

Bill: Do you really think some small fans on the rear decklid condenser help? It seems to me that the engine's fan, even in traffic, will pull more air across the condenser. I agree that a fan on an additional condenser is a must (I did it on my front left condenser), but adding little fans to the rear condenser seems to be "a pea in the ocean."

Pro Cooler
 

I just finished adding a Pro Cooler, new lines, a larger serpentine condenser on the rear and a new serpentine evaporator. Using R-134 the results are unbelievable. It works like a real AC system!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do not know which of the changes made the most difference but the combination is super.

si Banker: Tell me about the large serpentine condenser. How did you fit it? Can you post pics?

Scott,

I used a single 9" spal fan and it seems to have helped. It was installed at the same time the rear fender condenser so I can't really say what the contribution is. I can say that the air moving directly over the fan throught the tail grill / condenser is significantly greater with the fan. I could test the effectiveness of the fan by disconnecting it and checking pressures and temps though that might be way too scientific. Also if it turns out the fan makes no contribution I might feel the A/C is less effective. Remember its all about perception.

What about ditching the tail condensor altogether and help imporve engine cooling? Run an aux. condensor in the wheel well?

You can get rid of the front and rear condensors if you install a 964\993 front wheel well condensor. If you take the system apart to install barrier hoses, source the hose locally and get it in bulk. Way cheaper. I replaced all my hoses and fittings for about $200. I bought my hose and fittings from HoseFast in Dallas but most cities have someplace the local mechanics use for custom brake lines and AC.

Pro Cooler
 

The condenser is custom made by a shop here in Fort Worth. It is about half again as larger as the stock one, which I am selling for $175.00, and is curved like the radiator on a sport bike. He described it as a serpentine condenser.

The fit is very tight and it comes with the necessary hardware. I can assure you the results are worth it.

Re: Pro Cooler
 

Can you post a picture, and the name of the shop that did the work?

will the 964/993 condensor fit in the front wheel well?

Why would you want to decrease condenser surface. The key to effective a/c is heat exchange. The more condenser surface, the more heat exchange. The more heat exchange, the better the a/c.

It seems to me that you'd want to add the 964/993 condenser in addition to the existing condensers. Am I missing something here? :confused:

Jared,

Listen to Scottb, he's so smart

I think Jack Olsen uses a Performance Aire belly condenser instead of an engine lid condenser with good results. Hopefully he'll chime in here.

I have no desire to put a condensor under my car... I probably cant afford it anyway....

Does the 964/993 condensor fit in the wheel well?

I bought an aftermarket condenser from www.iceac.com. Here's a picture in the front left fender, without the rock guard I fashioned:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1116346717.jpg

I straightened out the bent fins before I buttoned everything up.

Ok, im thinking now of simply mounting the 993 condensor in the front wheel well, along with the stock front condensor, eliminating the rear condensor, new lines and a sanden 507.

thanks, scott..agreed..i want barrier hoses as long as i keep using r-12 (liquid gold).

i read hadlun's thread regarding his rear condenser electric fan..read like the purpose was soley for stop and go traffic..i imagine it would be superfluous at speed..it would be nice to see before and after temp results sitting at idle though..

yeah, i'd like to see these result at idle (be sure to wear a geeky lab coat)..and i like the idea of 'perceived cold'..i'm thinking maybe skip the car mods and just go the hypnosis route..'i'm not melting..i'm not melting..it's snowing inside..snowing inside..' ;)
ryan

The 964\993 style is much more efficient and incorporates a fan and shroud to maxamize air flow. The 911 AC problem is mostly heat transfer from the condensor becasue of poor air flow and is compensated by adding more condensor surface area. The 993 has great AC and does not need multiple condensors.
Make sure the condensor setup you buy has the bracket, shroud and fan included. Additional custom mounting brackets have to be fab'd to do the install and does require removal\relocation of the washer resevoir and the gas tank expasion chamber.

what's unique in the design of the 993 compressor over any other wheelwell compressor with fan available? does your testimony state (for the record here..lol) that this condensor alone is sufficient and that you may remove all others?
ryan

I can't fathom why you'd remove one condenser, and then add one. It makes no sense. Why not just leave the rear condenser and then add the front condenser in the fender?

More condenser surface = more cooling.

More air into the engine comaprtment for better cooling

rip out the ac and move to alaska. that should lower your vent temperatures...

Let me see if I have this correct: The whole bottom of the engine bay is open, and there's a grill on the rear deck that's maybe three square feet. And you think that by removing the condenser, through which air flows, albeit restricted somewhat, you'll be getting extra noticeable cooling? I'm not a cooling expert, but I'd be VERY suprised if removing the condenser is going to get you much improvement, if any.

My $.02, but I'd be interested to hear what others think.

And your engine temps!

My engine did run slightly cooler (according to the oil temp gauge) by removing the non-used condensor

What's more important to you? A "slightly" cooler engine, or a much cooler cabin? If it's the cooler engine, then remove the condenser.

Hey, im just exploring options here..

with the air conditioner on, how much heat is coming off that rear condensor? maybe enough to warm the air a bit?

i took the AC out of a 75 car, and i noticed temps lower at the gauge too. i cant explain it, tho. maybe the increase of the opening in the lid?

Why not? It would let you get rid of the engine lid condenser like you want to do. The belly condenser is so strong that you jack the car up on it and do no damage. I think it cost $400 so it's not real expensive. If you are using R134a it's the way to go.

If you use an 993 condenser it's going to take a lot of work to make brackets and relocate the stuff in the left hand wheelwell.

The rear condensor gets almost too hot to touch when the AC is running on a hot day. The in and out connectors will easily burn bare skin. Removing it will definately give the engine much cooler air.

The rear lid condenser is dumping heat on the engine and in return raising engine temps..not a major issue when you are moving but when stopped in traffic the engine fan just is not pulling alot of air. The under belly condenser will supply more surface area ( a good thing) but..in stop and go traffic you have the same problems..reduced air flow and that heat is now coming up thru the floor..again not an issue when you are moving. The dream has always been to remove the rear lid condenser and go with something under the drivers side fenders like griffith or the 964. I've done lots of homework on this approach and most of the threads that have been started regarding this type of modification have no follow-ups as to how the project turned out. I have often wondered if the 964/ 993 condenser assembly would fit in the rear fender like griffiths...making it possible to run two units if needed? Performance Aire also makes a new improved three layer rear condenser that looks interesting unfortunately I haven't heard much about the operation of that unit. I like the looks of the new retro air evaporator seems like a good way to go. Another strange A/C issue that has always puzzled me and is never addressed here is the return air plumbing. On the passenger side it is behind the floor board and flow is really effected by carpeting. The Drivers side is more of a joke..you have that big ol' 3.5" or so duct from the evaporator that goes to an opening behind the gas pedal..then you throw some carpet on that and reduce the opning even more. I've often wondered why they didn't use the center tunnel to pull air from vents that could have been located under the seats. Anyway..how about you A/C pioneers reporting back to us all on your systems, the components and what works and what doesn't.

The more condenser area the better.

I always kind of roll my eyes at the Procooler. Maybe it works. It's not clear to me why it would do all that much, and the manufacturer has never had it tested, as far as I can tell. But I'm not an AC expert by any stretch, just a consumer -- and I doubt it hurts a system's performance. But I don't know if the expense is justified.

More condenser area is definitely going to help. A good compressor is definitely going to help. Getting all the basic components, like the hoses and evaporator, up to snuff is definitely going to help. A lot of times, all of this is done when the Procooler is added, and I think its perceived benefit grows as a result.

Very astute observation. I added my PC when I added the front fender condenser and installed barrier hoses. Did the PC give me the mid-30s vent temps that I'm getting now? Doubtful, but I'm sure it didn't hurt (as Jack said).

$400 for the underbelly seems good, You can really jack the car up with it?