Somethings rotten in Stuttgart!
 

I heard today from a reputable Porsche guy who had a new 911 in his shop that the transmission in the 997 is made in ………………Gasp!………………….Japan? Vas is dis? The good Dr must be rolling over! Additionally, the case is made in…………..Spain? WTF? Is this true , if so this is MADNESS!!

This can only mean good things for our all German ( Yea, I know the alternators are French and the are Swiss parts, but we are not rice driven) cars!

Now I know the 996 looks like a lexus from the side but now they are going too far.

As you know the Japanese build nice cars but they just don’t have soul, to me this is truly the end of the world as we know it . I was hoping to buy one of these new cars in 10 years , guess I/ll stick with what I have or go 993!

As a Lexus owner, I say GOOD. The cars are bullet proof. They are the gold standard the Mercedes used to be before it was corrupted by the Detroit masters of crapmobiles.

I don't know how this is a bad thing. Some of the best metallurgy is coming from Japan. Honda and Toyota are kicking butt in the IRL. So what's the problem. No car manufactuers are vertical molopolies anymore as this doesn't make sense. I'd be careful about you desire for a pure German car as you be continuously surprsed with what you find when you take one apart.

big surprise:rolleyes:

Lot of Harley Davidson parts are made in Japan too...

Most of GM's trucks are made in either Canada or Mexico

This isnt really an issue these days...

There is always the NSX if one were inclined to turn Japanese.

Or maybe a nice Honda accord .

We have a japanese car now at home that replaced an old Benz , we won't have another when it is gone .

Brian What issue was that ? I would like to see it.

BTW
My post was a little tongue in cheek!

Japanese steel = POT METAL

IRL & CART = FAILED SPORT...destroyed by a bitter feud. ie: INDY 500.... what's up with those trannys that run about 350-400 out of 500 miles...

I love my Yugo! :eek:

Don't tell RUB Harley riders that, they'll go into an immediate state of denial and start selling their harley merchandise.

Hell - I can only dream that the German made transmission in my 911 shifted as good as the Japanese made one in my Honda.

That's almost as blasphemous as Mini Coopers and Land Rovers that are are really BMWs...

Aisin (the name of the tranny manufacturer)

well for the harley guys out there the engine in the Vrod was designed in weissach. so it's not all bad.

File this one under "Who Cares" and "Welcome to the year 2000 and beyond"

In the Panorama a few months ago, their is a list of where all the 997 parts are made around the globe. I will scan it tomorrow if I can find it and post it here so you can see.

To maybe put it in perspective, I had to repair a clothes washer today. The replacement "all plastic and rubber" water pump from Whirlpool was $52. When my Dodge Ram 50 pickup trashed it's water pump, I just went to the local auto parts store and bought a new "aftermarket" waterpump for less than $20. Cast aluminum, ballbearings, steel.... and such. I don't know where it was made, but it was of good quality.

Not sure what all that means, but my general feeling is that those manufacturers who produce a high quality part, for a reasonable price, will always prevail.

China.

I'm learning Mandarin...go with the flow.

Aah Haa ! Now I understand why Ferrari quality is questioned. Fiat is a 50% owner...

Well

C Class Mercedes are made in South Africa

BMW Z3 are made in USA

BMW X5 Made in USA

And I think I read that 5 series BWM were made in Thailand.

Saab 900s made in Finland not Sweden

It's getting to be a mixed up world.

welcome to the world of the bottom line. who cares where it is made as long as it works

The marketing people care about this!!!

They tell us about the German Porsche heritage, the German build quality blah blah.

The Porsche brand is being watered down these days.

As a Porsche fan I want heritage and mystique, a car with a soul - a German one that is......




Is Aisin the manufacturer?

do you think you could honesly afford a porsche with all german parts? well it would cost a whole lot more. a couple weeks ago we had the front end off an audi a6, we were looking at where all the parts were made and we counted something like 15 different countries.

just for more reference, all electronics in lambo's are off the audi shelf.
vw's are made in mexico
jags have ford electronics, heck its just a taurus with a bokykit and leather
half the new benzos have dodge motors

in today's world it doesnt make sense to keep everything in house. its so much cheaper to send production elsewhere, i know the globalization of industry talk is old by now but its how things are going to be from now on.

Porsche has a purchasing office here in the Detroit area. They source parts from all over the world. Such is the nature of today's auto industry.

This is very interesting . I would like to see this article !

I am in the same camp as you Mikkel , that's why I like the cars that most people on the board have 64-89 , that was a good 25 years of heritage and soul.

BTW how many countries were in the older cars . I am aware of the the alternator , A/c compressor , my permatune ignition( which may or may not be original) my tires.

What else?

I like the Mini comment , it AIN"T a mini , it is a fun car but the soul is gone

No statement could be more true! If you think Porsche parts are expensive now, if everything was built "in house" they would be twice that bad (or more). I toured the Ducati factory when I was in Italy. They had frames from one manufacturer (yes the frame), wheels from another, etc, etc. The only thing they did in house was assemble the engine and bike. It was just a big parts house with an assembly line!! (except for the engines)

Germany is in trouble.

They've rcvd E. German sociallists, and have huge unemployment.

.. .and now the more smart $marks are employing Japanesse.

That is sad.

The last time Germany fell behind, they started a war.

Right on, HardDrive! GM has done the same thing to Saab, they're worse every year.

I have an Aisin tranny in my Jeep Cherokee. It is the same case used in Toyota Supras and Dodge Dakotas. The thing is awesome. I can just imagine how much better an Aisin would be 10 years newer than mine, and made for a Porsche 997. You can abuse these trannies and they keep on shifting fine. I can't say the same for my 915.

I guess it's sad we won't see any more G50 stuff, but whatever, the car lost it's soul in 1998, they might as well use the best, most cost effective supplies they can.

The Aisin tranny, transfer case and locking hubs are what make the Landcruisers so bulletproof. The only real offroad vehicle still manufactured IMHO.

Stick to engineering Island, you're a bit off base here.

As for the Aisin, yes, it's a bitter pill to swallow. However, in my mind, the 915 gearbox is the worst engineering fiasco in the entire SC-Carrera line. Porsche had all those years to perfect a smooth, precise shifting mechanism and they dropped the ball and fell over it. If there was a Honda tranny that would bolt in to my SC and handle the power, I'd be all over it.

ianc

I don't think anybody "acquired" anybody, it was an equal merger from a business standpoint. Having said that, by Daimlers own admission there have been significant lapses in quality of Mercedes products since the time of the merger (you can argue whether or not that is merger related). They have sunk to the bottom of the JD Power ratings and are struggling to bring themselves back to the top, which they will....just had a few bad years I think.

OT, but not off base... But back to cars:

I'd rather they get the top components from whoever makes them than use something inferior or so expensive it can't be bought. Japan has some top notch sports & race car engineers - some are at Mazda, some are at Seichiro Honda's place...

Some of the comments above are akin to terroir in wine. That's fine, but cars ain't wine. It you want that "purity of place" thing I'm not sure who still has it... RR maybe?

German cars still have a definable feel that no other country's cars have -- ditto for the Italians & British.

Ya mean this isn't in OT yet? (it should be)

On your second part there, (engineering) .. .

You answered your own question with the key prase "and handle the power. .."

I've had both apart. The Honda gears are small, like toys .. the 915s are heavy-duty.

The properly functioning 915 can be shifted fast . .. in fact if you don't shift them fast, you have to wait that much longer for the syncros to pull those big gears to matching speeds.

Shift the Honda box fast (often) and you'll feel the flex in the system right up to the point that fatigue steps-up and hands you a broken shift-fork. (ask me how I know)

That said, the Japanesse are quite capable of producing whatever the Germans spec.

It's just sad that the Germans can't utilize their own people (cost of business) . . oh, right . ..we're not in OT ;)

I don't think the 915 is inherently bad. I think a lot of the original owners did'nt understand how to use the equipment they could afford. I think you will find originalk owners who had a clue did not have problems.

For example, I believe in the owners manual for my SC it reccommends depressing the clutch pedal and than waiting several seconds before putting it in reverse. How many yuppy scum owners did that?;)

Maybe the 915 is not the best , but it seems to work pretty well for the purpose of these cars - Hi Speed carvers and tourers - if you want to drag race get a ricer :cool:

Hah! That's good. And I'll bet the "Harley" black jackets and the rest of the street wear is make in Hong Kong.

Some people are under the misconception that when a manufacturer (company A) outsources a part to company B, then the quality of said part is a result of company B. Well, that's partly correct. Company A has the ultimate responsibility to spec the part to manufacture, down to the base materials and whatever quality issues they wish company B to comply with. If what gets hung on the car is crap, it's the fault of both company A and B; B for manufacturing below or to spec and A for specing a low qualtiy part and/or allowing B to deliver the product below spec. Often, the bottom line is the main criteria, sometimes it's the engineering or lack thereof.

Conversely, if it's a well-engineered part like the Aisin gearbox mentioned above, then it's a win-win for all, customers alike. It's cheaper in the long run to have long-life parts, both for the consumer and consumer's perception of brand quality.

Someone mentioned Toyota. Like most manufacturers, most of their components are built by vendors, but their engineering specs, quality control and build techniques are such that one doesn't notice (or care) of the origin of the parts. BTW, they build Toyotas and parts in the USA as well.

Lexus was voted no. 1 in the last JD Powers "fewest defects" survey. It's basically a luxurified Toyota, but people don't care because it's luxo and screwed together so well.

Sherwood

Re: Somethings rotten in Stuttgart!
 

if this is true, can I ask for a dscount when buying one? :D

Mercedes' quality problems are of their own making. Chrysler's JD Power quality index is higher than Mercs after all. One need's to remember that the quality index applies across the whole line so if the American made Merc SUV's have a much lower quality than the german made cars (which I believe they do) than the index will make them all look bad.
-Chris

Actually, in their annual survey, JD Powers ranks individual cars as well as all cars by brand name. Here's the latest:

http://www.whatcar.com/News_SpecialReport.asp?NA_ID=214562

Guess what is no. 1 for the "Roadsters and Coupes" category?

Sherwood

Actually it is probably made in Pakistan or Thailand.

I may be wrong, but I thought that only the Harley-mechandise labels where made in Thailand. . . .you know, the ones that say "Made in the USA"

;)

Re: Somethings rotten in Stuttgart!
 

Did you know that your H4 euro headlamp upgrades are made in the Checzh (spl) republic?

Japanese are great engineers and builders. I would not be swayed away from that alone. Just because it built in Japan it was still engineered in germany. Outsourcing is a way to go these days if a company is to keep their heads above water. It is truly a small world now and getting smaller.