On the track, what separates the men from the boys?

[cantdrv55]

Is it pure driving talent, whatever that is, or nerves of steel, or having a well-prepped track car or a little of everything? I heard that a normally aspirated Miata with track-prepped suspension, if driven well, will beat a track prepped 911 driven by the average autocrosser on any length course. If that's true then, why the heck are we spending all of our bucks on our cars when we should be saving up for more track time?

[Jay Auskin]

At the PCA autocross school I attended, the instructor said a Honda Civic came to an event and kicked everyone's butt in an autocross event.

I'd say the driver without question.

[Superman]

There is no question about this. No question, no mystery. Your 911 is WAY more capable than you are. A good driver in my 911 (stock) would beat me in a 917/30. Beat me badly. It's not about the car. It's all driver.

There is such a thing as natural driving talent. But for most of us, it's seat time that makes the difference.

[B D]

It's all driver I have seen stock swb 911s put the smack down on new 500HP turbos at AX events.

[VZ935]

Well...you would have to be a real bad driver to get beat in a 917/30....I mean you could point and shoot the thing and go pretty darn fast...bottom line is a good driver makes the difference...you can either drive or you can't...usually you can get a 911 to handle unless it has some serious problems and in a 911 there is pretty much nothing new under the sun so no excuse for that....... by the way..I have never had any of the cars you are talking about come remotely close to me in my GT1R or 935..and I can't drive for crap

[Joe Bob]

AX????....please, a good driver in a stock 1.7 914 will wipe the floor on a tight AX course. They don't call them "AX Weapon's of Champions" for nothing....

[gerry100]

Seems logical that AutoX is where this is proven out- no straights.

400HP + can and does erase a lot of mistakes on the straights of a place like Watkins Glen.

One thing I have noticed is how much more speed a seemingly slight inmprovement in my line gives me. Hitting all the marks and blending them together could really help one close on a more powerful/capable car that is not as well driven.

It's the driver - up to some point.

[TerryH]

"On the track, what separates the men from the boys?"

If it's Michael Jacksons track, then it would likely take a crowbar.

[Joe Bob]

MJ's track only allows pedal cars....

[Superman]

VZ935, you haven't seen me drive. Your lawn mower could probably beat me.

Mike is correct. The 914 is the bully of the autocross track. Although, a guy in a stock 924S is whooping on our GTU class this year. The really embarrassing thing is that the 924S is a legitimate S1 car!

I know a guy, a local perennial SCCA champ and respected driver/instructor, who for several years campaigned a bone stock Dodge Colt with full roll cage (200 lbs, probably). He laid the hurt on a lot of cars with fat tires and powerful engines.

One of these days I'd like to get one of the really great drivers in my region to drive my car while I ride. I'm guessing it'd be quite an experience. To say the least.

[randywebb]

"you would have to be a real bad driver to get beat in a 917/30"

Not a good choice of car... that was a tough car to drive. Most of us would probably crash it w/in a few laps.

Pick, say, a modern Cup car or something. I got real surpised by the huge torque steer in a "puny" GT-2... no crash tho.

[VZ935]

Ahh I'm sorry , you guys are talking strictly about AX..I don't AX.....I believe in specializing I got thrown off..couldn't imagine anyone ever talking about AXing a 917/30 .... OK I will leave this for the AX guys..sorry!

[carreraplanes]

For my money it is a bit of everything. However on the track having a race chassis helps. Competitive lap times for my old Polo G40 (supercharged 142bhp) race car with slicks, seam welded, and race suspension would be quicker than a lot of classic 911 production racers on a medium tight track. These run a softer set up with road tyres. Slicks and racing suspension would be worth 5 or more seconds a lap over an 80 second lap time.

For example if you say driving technique 40%, confidence / ability to push 20% car prep 40% you can see that a driver who is 60% can make up for a 20% car and vice versa. My racing experience is fairly limited being a couple of seasons in the G40 and a couple of seasons sprinting my 911 sc. A sprint is a timed section over a race track or closed public road. I think this is what you refer to as Auto X am I right? Auto X in this country means cars that race over mud. Anyway all I really learned in this time is that the number of variables involved in racing and lap times only serves to make you very dizzy!!!

[cbeers]

VZ,

You are ON track! Chris' original question was all about track time, not AX.

I do agree with everyone though, driver does it.


-Chris

[VZ935]

No problem...I just know that the 914s where ruling the school in our PCA regionfor both AX ,TT and club racing when I got involved with PCA activities..they were all very light..under 2,000 lbs and they all had big 6s in them..some with 3.5s with slide injection or webbers , PMOs etc....I dusted off my old heavy 934 with an old worn out motor and destroyed them including the SCCA champ that was running at the time... and like I said ..I can't drive for crap...now if I could drive..man that would be nice I would think we would all agree it is the driver first...in racing the longer it goes the more experience and talent comes in to play..of course the car has to last but that also has a bit to do with the driver and experience.

[89911]

There is no way a track prepped Miata will beat any track prepped 911. Similar weight, the 911 has at least twice the horsepower. I have run against some at DE's and on straight, they are very slow!

[Porschekid962]

this guy knows the difference...



when asked in an interview as to what made him faster, hans stuck replied, you have to have big balls.

[dd74]

Originally posted by Superman
There is no question about this. No question, no mystery. Your 911 is WAY more capable than you are. A good driver in my 911 (stock) would beat me in a 917/30. Beat me badly. It's not about the car. It's all driver.

There is such a thing as natural driving talent. But for most of us, it's seat time that makes the difference.

Wise words. Very wise. Couldn't have been put better.

[rattlsnak]

>>On the track, what separates the men from the boys?<<

$$$$$$$. Period..

[Joe Bob]

Originally posted by 89911
There is no way a track prepped Miata will beat any track prepped 911. Similar weight, the 911 has at least twice the horsepower. I have run against some at DE's and on straight, they are very slow!

What if the 911 was driven by George Bush?