Engine spewing oil through airbox..Mechanic doesn't know why...Help!
 

Hi folks. Well, My '87 Porsche 930 arrived last week. I drove it home about twenty miles that night. The next morning I brought it to my mechanic to have things checked out.

I asked him to replace the oil in the car as I couldn't know when the previous owner had done it. So, I figured I'd be safe and change it.

My mechanic tells me that after changing the oil the car is belching oil into the airbox and then dumping it on the floor of his shop. He tells me that he's perplexed. I asked him if he checked the lvels while the engine was warmed up and he tells me, "yes."

He told me that he had the oil level to the top line on the dip stick. I told him to drain the oil until it was in-between the two lines so he did. He took it out for a run today and said it was fine.

So I go to pick up my car. I happily opened the door and loaded my five year old son into the passenger seat of the car. My wife was following us. She noticed a puff of smoke develope beneath the right rear of the car. Then she saw flames dropping to the ground. At first she thought it was sparks or something then she realized it was fire dripping to the ground. In a panic she began to blow her horn.

I'm figuring she's just seeing smoke from oil residue burning off of the exhaust. My mechanic told me that it would be a little smoky until all of the oil burned off. Problem is the car was spewing fresh oil onto the heat exchanger and it ignited. NICE!

I get my son out of the car and check underneath. Nice fire on the right rear heat exchanger. Not too small either. There was nothing I could do. I didn't have an extinguisher although it is a priority for me I never though that I would be watching my engine burn the second time I drove the car to get it back home. Especially after just having it checked at the shop and being given the green light on it.

The car didn't spew oil when I got it. I'm wondering if my mechanic missed something here. Oil Pressure bar is at 4 and the oil pressure guage is maxed when the engine is cold. Oil level is at the bottom line. Do you guys have any idea what may be going on here. Your help would be greatly appreciated.

edited by me.

Has the wrench ever changes the oil in a 911? Did he over fill it?

ask him how many quarts he put in. 10 with a filter usually gets the level between the lines. undoubtedly it was overfilled. the extra oil burps through the hose from the filler neck into the back of the air filter housing. there is probably some still in the housing, and the paper element may be soaked too. then it drains all over the top of the engine and works it's way down to the exchangers. a better cleanup would have been good, but he would have had to remove the a/c pump, intercooler and air filter housing to do it, and that may have been too much trouble.

I think he did. He swears he didn't. Don't get me wrong. Me and this guy are friends. I know him very well. He owns a Boxster, has 30 or so customers that drive Porsches and has worked on 911 before.

Admittedly he says he's rusty on them. When he told me that I became very concerned so I asked him if he changed it on level ground and at temperature. He says he did. And I also had him drain some out so that the oil reads between the lines. Now, whether or not he did this while the engine was warm who knows.

What a way to start the ownership of this car.

In other events, the company I bought the car from (Jenkin's Auto Sales in Pompano Beach, Florida) tells me today that they are waiting on the bank to get the title to them so they can get it to me after my calling them about it today. I was told by my salesman that it was on it's way last week. Still no title. I asked the girl that told me this to tell me who has a lein on my car. She replies, "I can't tell you that." I'm like, what the hell.

I asked her if the car was on consigment at their lot and she tells me, "No." so I aske her how come they don't have the title. SILENCE!

I then proceeded to tell her that I've researched the car and that her dealership purchased the car at auction. After telling her this I asked her again why would the bank have the title for the car. Again she answers, "I can't answer that." I'm pretty PO'd at this point. The car has been paid for over a week and they can't seem to get the title to me. Something's fishy. I plan on contacting the Florida DMV tomorrow and the the Federal Trade Commision if I don't get some answers soon. I gave them till 3:00pm my time to contact me about this and they decided not to call me.

If they want to play ball then I'll teach them how to play. Can't stand dishonesty. And I won't tolerate it.

It'll be nice to get all of this behind me so I can get on with driving my car. I must have PATIENCE!

He said that he put in 11 quarts. This is not left over oil. This is fresh oils spewing out and igniting on the headers. We estimate now that there is between 9 and 10 quarts. The dip stick shows the oil level being at the bottom line now and it is still doing this.

Air filter? What air filter? He took it out because it was fouled and sent me on my way without one. I planned on getting a K&N anyway and figured the five mile ride would be no big deal without one. Hell, I would have ruined a new one anyway with all the oil this thing is belching.

Is there a valve or anything else in the oiling system that could be stuck? I haven't received my copy of Wayne's book yet so I'm still guessing here.

Was the engine idling when you checked the level with the dip stick?

Drain a little out of the case or tank...use the drain plug to control the flow, then screw it back in when you've gotten enough out.

Sorry to hear about the title issue...go to the top and demand satisifaction, else go after them w/o mercy!

no valve, but maybe a baffle in the hose to keep the oil at bay. SCs have them. high crankcase pressure (blowby) can cause the oil to burp through the hose. broken rings or extremely loose valve guides can cause it. why was it at auction i wonder?

Wow, that's a pretty dramatic way to start Porsche ownership.

It also sounds totally unecissary.

If the mechanic doesn't know how much oil to put in and then doesn't know he should clean up the mess so the car doesn't burst into flames you might want to consider another mechanic.

Look for someone who works on these cars all the time.

What your describing sounds like a basic mistake which may mean that he's not fimilure with 911s.

The only thing I can figure is a possible REPO. Maybe the bank has the title and it was never tranferred to the dealer when they purchased the car. Looks like their peanuts are in a vise. I may be wrong on this but I'm pretty good at smelling a rat.

None the less, the car is in decent shape even though they falsley represented it on the internet. Statements such as "AC Excellent, Paint Excellent, Tires Excellent are lies. And I've documented them. Even if they take the ad down it's too late. I have a copy of the site on CD. I actually did this for prosperity's sake. Looks like I might have to use it to get my damned title.

The tires are so dry rotted that my mechanic refused to drive the car on the interstate. There is damage to the wheels and paint. etc.

I've decided to fix these things and keep the car. But if they want to play around with my title then things will get really nasty for them really quick. I even told the girl on the phone this today and they never called back. Great after sale service wouldn't you say? That's ok though. I'm used to having to twist arms to get people to do the right thing. In my old age I've gotten pretty good at it. It's a damned shame that this is how adults treat other adults.

We'll see what they say tomorrow. If I get no answers then I'll start the process of reporting them to the proper authorities.

I agree with you guys. I don't think my mechanic is familiar enough with the car. He picked up the tab on towing to get the car back to his shop today and anything that was damaged in the fire he will replace. He's a good guy albiet not a true Porsche tech.
I'll be bringing the car to Greff motors next week just to have them go over everything again.

Hmm, your title problem posted while I was typing, that's a larger issue.

Yeah, for them!I guess fire is the issue of the day for me gentlemen. LOL! Both in my car and on the dealership's butts! Excuse me while I go get a beer.

I'm trying to laugh about this stuff. If there's one thing I have learned it is that things will work out most of the time. It's just unfortunate that I have to spend my energy to make it happen. It'll happen though. You can count on it. People usually wise up really quick when they realize their ass is on the line.

Hey, your luck sounds like mine. Hang in there, kick butt, and keep us posted.
Good luck.

Man, I think the oil problem is solveable, but the title is more complicated. I had to ask many times for my title from the dealer before I got it because it was being purchased from the seller, but he had not paid off the loan yet. Gave me a few sleepness nights, but it worked out fine. The real owner of the dealership DIED before I could get the title, and his name was on the papers. You got some more serious problems than I would want, but like you, go get them with all your might and skills, take their balls, crush them, and spit them out.

Unfortunately a lot of people only respond when pressured to do so. Hopefully I won't have to apply anymore. If I do that's fine too. I'll apply it until they've had enough. I really hate having to do that but sometimes it's the only thing that works. It will work out in the end but I'm not in the mood to be jerked around right now that's all.

I'll get with my mechanic tomorrow. If he has no answers i.e. "I over filled it" then I'm yanking the car and I'll get it to Greff's. My mechaninc is friends with Randy Greff so I asked him to give Randy a call tomorrow. Whether he does this or not I won't know. I would imagine that no answer tomorrow would indicate that he chose not to call Randy.

What other damage should I look for if he did overfill it? What seals would blow out? I'd like to know so that I can keep an eye on them until I get a couple hundred miles on the odometer.

no damage, just a mess. a real mechanic can give you a reliable run down on the car. have him check it thoroughly. hopefully there aren't any other problems.

thunder, does Greff do good work? I'm trying to find a place for an allignment.
good luck with the title issue

jbrinkley, he was recommended by several other members on this board. From what I understand, Randy Greff builds racing motors for himself as well as other here in the New Orleans area. I've been told he's been into it for over 20 years.

Even my current mechanic recommend that I talk to Randy about Porsches before my purchase. From what I hear, he is one of the best around these parts. I'm sure that expertise comes at a price but as others on this board have told me........ It's better to pay the piper now than to pay him twice. I think this message is starting to sink in really fast for me. I'm a slow learner until it starts to cost me loads of Bennies. My car will be heading over there next week. I'm just happy that my car didn't go up in flames today. More than that I'm glad I was able to get my son out of the car before anything really bad happened. It could have been much worse. I thank God it wasn't. It's been one hell of a day. No doubt!

I would not have paid unless I see the title, and the transfer in my hands. But, that is just me. Good luck with both issues.

The car was purchased out of state. I doubt very seriously that the dealer would have sent me the title prior to my buying the car.

by law the dealership has to have either the title or a copy of the title at the lot. Ask to see it! I would take it back if they can't show you the copy. Or report them to the DMV immediately.

-Dan

Then again, maybe they would have sent the title if I'd have sent the bill of sale signed before sending a check. Chalk it up to my inexperience in buying cars long distance.

I told them that I'd be reporting them to FL DMV tomorrow. Guess I'll be busy in the morning.

Well, at least it's a 930. So you have something really cool when it's sorted.

In your post I read the mech checked the oil with the engine warmed up. The question that comes to mind is; Did he warm it up and then shut it off to check the oil? If so, there is the answer to the overfill problem. I too as a novice fell prey to the "Gee I didn't know the engine had to be running when you check the oil" thing. Belched so much smoke folks thought we had elected a new pope! As for the title thing, all I can say is I wish you the best of luck.

I just spoke to my mechanic. He tells me he did warm it up and he did check the level while the engine was running. He told me that there are three hoses going to the airbox and that one of them is bad. It appears to be a vacuum line. He's replacing it and is going to test the car. He'll have a report for me mid afternoon today.

Now, this leads to another problem for Jenkin's Auto. In their internet add for the car they listed the major components of the car to be in "Excellent" condition. This included the AC, motor, electrics, tires etc. If in fact this is a motor problem then they will be held liable for lying on the internet about the condition of the car. After I mentioned to them yesterday my discontent with the false advertisement of the car they removed the add from their site. Too bad for them that I had already downloaded the add to my computer and burned a copy to CD for my records.

There are laws to protect consumers against false advertisement. Considering that this advertisement was based over a wired network it may constitute wire fraud. The commision of wire fruad is protected under the RICO act. I sure hope the people at Jenkin's have at least some sense. If not, then it'll be curtains for them. Some people just don't get it.

Sorry for the drama guys. I'm not one that takes being lied to very well. I'll keep you guys posted as to the outcome. They have 24 hours to reply in writing or it's on to my attorney. I'll let him deal with it.

Sorry to hear about your early ownership hassles.

Concerning the title, I would talk only with the owner of the dealership until the issue is resolved to your satisfaction.

Hang in there.

Damn, you southern guys are so mellow..up here in New Jersey we bring a baseball bat to the dealership and maybe tony and the the boys..good luck!

Sorry to hear about your troubles...how bad was that fire? Did it extend to the upper part of the engine (where the fuel injection system is? I sure hope not. A few years back I had a beautiful 1993 VR6 Passat that burned to the ground due to a fuel leak, and had just dropped full coverage insurance. :( It goes without saying that all my cars have extinguishers in them now.

> internet add for the car they listed the major components of the car to be in "Excellent" condition. This included the AC, motor, electrics, tires etc. If in fact this is a motor problem then they will be held liable for lying on the internet about the condition of the car.

Most dealers don't know squat about these cars...as far as they knew the car ran and looked nice. They are not Porsche experts. And it probably is fine and just overfilled with oil. Did the mechanic drain the oil from BOTH the sump and the overflow tank?

The buyer should take all responsibility for having the car inspected by a professional mechanic. So drop the "they will be held liable" rhetoric. The title issue is another matter, and worthy of a lawsuit if it doesn't pan out soon.

The lesson: never buy a Porsche, especially a complex one like a 930, without an inspection by an expert mechanic (PPI). You'll be fine...like you said, these things tend to work out.

I think that this is an OMEN. You are given signs that this 930 may not be for you. It is not a good sign. Go with your first intuition.

This is clearly a message that you need to find another 930.

Sorry. Any car that starts out like this, I will walk away from. Just my .02 cents.

Ihave purchased may used vehicles and other than a PPI, I also go with my gut feeling which has never failed me. If I feel good vibes when testing the car, I buy it. And they have always lasted and performed to my expectations.

I may be superstitious but that works for me.

Never bought a used Lemon in my life..(knocking on wood)

>Sorry. Any car that starts out like this, I will walk away from. Just my .02 cents.

Um...the mechanic overfilled the oil and it spewed out. This is not disaster. Get the oil level right and the car will be fine, no need to panic folks.

No title, not even a copy? hmmmmm.. pretty suspicious.

A fire in the engine bay, hmmmmm... a mechanic overfilling a 911 who himself has owned porsches..hmmmmm..

I'd walk away from it. the title issue is enough to make me question the dealers intent to defraud (maybe) hmmmmm..


there are other 930s out there.

False advertising is not rhetoric. It's against the law. That being said........

My mechanic contacted me this afternoon. Turns out that he in fact did overfill the car. I knew this was the case but he was very relunctant to admit it. After all he almost destroyed the car.

Here's why it caught fire. After he overfilled the oil and ran the car the oil ruined the air filter. He knew that I was going to replace the filter with a K&N filter and informed me that the original filter was too badly soaked with oil to be of any further use. I live 5 miles from the shop and figured it wouldn't be a problem so I agreed to take the car without an air filter.

Because there was no air filter the oil that was belching into the airbox was channeled directly over the right heat exchanger. Poof!

Talked to the dealer today and got some answers on my title. They say that the bank has the title because there was a lien on the car from the previous owner. Apparently they dropped the ball and never took care of it. I was assured the title would be in my hand within a week. No more than 60 days is what Fl law says. I'll have to wait and see. They're sending me a temp tag so that I can at least drive the car.

I don't think this car is a bad omen. That kind of thinking doesn't work for me. The bottom line is that the oil was overfilled and the dealer is scrambling to get me a title. No major deal unless they are lying to me. Then it becomes a big deal.

I've got a 600 SS Kawasaki that was customized for over a year. If anything were a bad omen in my garage it would be that thing. But I got through it after a year of demanding what I paid for through several vendors. I know the ropes when it comes to dealing with cheats and liars. That's all this scenario is. A little pressure in the right spots goes a long way to resolving problems such as these.

Dear Thunder
I am surprised and saddened to hear of your problems. I saw the car before you purchased it. I even ran it for about 15-20 mins and thought it sounded reallly smooth!. Oil level looked okay with clean oil and no major drips. No smoke from start up and settled to a perfect idle. No valve noise and smooth when I pumped the thottle- no popping or missfiring!.
No oil evident!. I did not get to drive it as they said they would only do that after a serious offer and deposit.
I would never get another 911 without PPI as I got stung on my 1st 86ragtop.
I even PPI'd my current targa when buying from a friend!!

I know hindsight is a wonderfull thing! - sorry not much help!
However I would be surprised if there is much wrong with the car.

The people at the Jenkins car lot seemed like a dodgey bunch I must admit- but the same can be said of a lot of sports car salesmen?
I did look in the glove box and there were 2 New Jersey registration cards from an Italian surname- woman. Cannot remember name. Also there were the new jersey tag plates in the trunk. They said it was owned by a friend of their and they were selling it as a favour- however when I mentioned the registered owners name he looked blank!!! ?

The car looked okay but had been tarted up a bit as some car lot salesmen do to their cars i.e. black sticky crap over the side walls to make tires look new! and oil/vaseline on the ****s not to feed the anodizing but to hide the sanded rims!.

However stuff like that is fixable with some TLC.
I do not think you bought a 'dog' - it just needs some tiem and or money spent on it- which would have turned up in a PPI- sorry but true!

Hope the title sorts itself out
PS - I would not threaten these guys as they looked pretty ugly!
Ben

One more thing, the A/C did not work but like a lot of old porsches it may just need a charge. All of the fans sounded quiet and worked!.
The elect windows did NOT work- hope thats and easy one!
The doors opened and closed easily and the bodywork in general seemed 'straight'.
Don't fall 'out of love' with your car and hope all is fixed soon!
Rgds Ben

Thunder, I took a gal out on a first date to see "Falcon and theSnowman", went to seafood afterwards and 15 minutes into the ride home she was feeling sick and I pulled over and had to help her out of the car. She threw up all over my new leather jacket and on May 25,2005 we celebrated our 20th anniversary together.( I wonder if I was wearing too much cologne that night?) True story and don't sweat it.

You guys are so right. Ben..the A/C needs more than a charge. had that done but a true R134 conversion is on the list. I'm going to do it myself. Are there any problems with the car bursting into flames if I install the AC wrong. ROTFLMAO!!!!!!! Sorry fellas I had to. he he he. Got to keep my sense of humor about all of this.

As far as those guys a Jenkins being shifty. I don't doubt it one bit. They are salesmen. As far as threats towards them are concerned, I'm not intimidated by anyone. They can be a bunch of goons for all I care. Bottom line is that the book of law is much stronger than any man I have ever met. You just have to learn how hard to throw it that's all. Right now I'd say they don't like the way the cover on it feels much less wanting to see what's inside of it. They know damned well I'll open that book if they lie to me. As I mentioned above. I spoke with the salesman today. He was a stuttering and nervous man today I can assure you of that.

I like the car. I have no problem fixing it. But to be lied to really gets to me. I don't treat others that way and refuse to be treated that way.

In 1995 I bought my first Porsche, an 84 from a non Porsche shop and the car was on consignment. All of this was pre-Pelican, Rennlist etc. I do go back to Porschephiles though. The out of town, "noncar guy" owner would not let me take the car for a PPI. But I could bring anyone to look at drive it. No lift etc. available. The Porsce owner/ mechanic that looked at it for me couldn't find "anything scary."
I bought the car, put on 100 miles and the clutch went. I still have the car and probably always will. The moral though is if they won't let you drive the car, have a PPI, then walk. There is this perception by non-Porsche car dealers that they have look but don't touch diamonds for sale.
regards,
Steve

Watch out, there maybe a lien on the car. Ask for the bank name and give them a call. They won't release the title until the lien is paid off.
If that is the case is the responsability of the seller to pay off the lien and get you that title.

Hope this helps!!

Thanks PorscheG. I'm on them like white on rice. I think I'll take your advice and contact the bank. That's something I hadn't thought of. I really appreciate all of the help.

what's worse, oil in the air box or carbon canister fragments?