3.2 to 3.4 - what else?

[Jgordon]

I'm enlarging my engine from 3.2 to 3.4 at the moment, illustrated in the "You all suck " thread.

Eventually, I will be replacing the exhaust with new headers, a cat bypass, and a new muffler. I have a couple of questions though:

What chip for this? Should I ask Steve Wong to write one? Would he then rewrite as changes are made to the engine? Is there an out-of-the-box chip for this?

What else to do? I'm kind of out of cash with this at the moment, but eventually I'd like to maximize the engine as it is.

Extrude-hone the intake manifold?

MAF?

Simple Cone Filter?

Best exhaust combinations for this motor?

I know a couple of other guys have done, or are doing this to their engines, what experiences, both good and bad, have you had with different components?

Thanks.

[bigchillcar]

pm rdane..i think he's the local 3.4 pr guy..
ryan

[JeremyD]

Ok - The short version -

Chip - yes Steve Wong easy call- not cheap for a custom chip - but each engine works a little different.

Exhaust - After talking back and forward - with some of the best in the Porsche business - really the best exhaust headers are B & B (if you want heat) George's euro headers without. I plan on having Ben McFarland make a muffler for me based on the B & B Headers

Extrude hone - yes, plan on doing that too. Not so much for the increase - but to even the flow to all cylinders. As you extract more out of the engine - becomes more important.

Supertec head studs

Throttle body - boring out - 3-4 mm difference in the most obvious place.

Cam - I'm going with the 993 "Super Sport" version. Much more cammy and much better to take advantage of exhaust mods.

My goal is 230 rwhp but I know of a few engines that are well into the 240's...

[JeremyD]

and rdane has a 3.4 with CIS...

[Carrera3.5L]

Originally posted by Jeremy964
My goal is 230 rwhp

You'll get there Jeremy!

Did you do a recent baseline run before pulling the motor? Doing this will give you a better indication as to what the improvements (and where!) actually are once the new motor is running, broken in and back on the dyno to measure the changes.

I don't believe the peak numbers are all that important as different dynos will provide slightly different outputs, but the percent change in performance from before/after on the same dyno tested in the same manner will be more meaningful.

Keep the pics coming!

Ralph

[Shuie]

I keep reading about 993 supersport cams on 3.2 motronic rebuilds. What is the difference between this cam and a 20/21 or a 964 cam? I thought the 20/21 was max that could be used with a common plenum intake??

[asphaltgambler]

You should upgrade and balance the oil system. Opt for a turbo oil pump and piston squirters. The pressure side is the same as the SC pump but the scavenge side is doubled (volume).

The turbo piston squirters flow @ 25% more oil to the underside of the pistons which is important because your are increasing the piston diameter 3-5mm.

Use the 964 cam oil restrictors to control excess oil in the top end.

A better route for the intake system is complete plastic intake from a 3.6. The plastic runners are more uniform in flow, lighter weight and the throttle body is larger. You need to aquire adaptors to mate it to your heads. Cost @$300.

This is what I did and overall much cheaper and less time consuming than re-engineering the stock sc intake.

[89911]

Originally posted by Jgordon
I'm kind of out of cash with this at the moment, but eventually I'd like to maximize the engine as it is.


Thanks.

My friend, it is only the beginning. Hopefully it will come as increments of 100's and 1000's. If it all came at once, it would be quite painful.

[Carrera3.5L]

Originally posted by asphaltgambler
You should upgrade and balance the oil system. Opt for a turbo oil pump and piston squirters. The pressure side is the same as the SC pump but the scavenge side is doubled (volume).

The turbo piston squirters flow @ 25% more oil to the underside of the pistons which is important because your are increasing the piston diameter 3-5mm.

Use the 964 cam oil restrictors to control excess oil in the top end.

A better route for the intake system is complete plastic intake from a 3.6. The plastic runners are more uniform in flow, lighter weight and the throttle body is larger. You need to aquire adaptors to mate it to your heads. Cost @$300.

This is what I did and overall much cheaper and less time consuming than re-engineering the stock sc intake.

Hey Asphalt,

Did I miss something? The last time we talked you were just in the hunting/gathering stage for a 3.4L rebuild. It looks like you are already done? And you didn't share it with us or I just fell asleep at the wheel?

Good call on considering the pump and squirters upgrade, although for street use the stock Carrera pump should be fine but if you have to change the GT3R pump is much less expensive than a 930 pump. The oil squirters are a nice tip though and something to think about "while you're in there". Than again, if he's just using the slip-in 98's, he may not be splitting the case anyway. I'm sure his shop will steer him in the right direction.

Here is a pic of the cam oil line restrictors that Asphalt is referring to:



Different schools of thought on using them, some think they're essential and some think a waste.

If you can do the plastic 3.6L intakes for approx. $300 you should consider that route as Extrude Honing the alu plenums will be over $400 by itself plus another $200 (guesstimate) to bore the throttle body. You can also sell the alu plenums for anywhere in the $250-$400 range.

Shuie, I don't have the specs handy at the moment for the cam set you reference as Web-Cam doesn't publish the specs for them in their catalog and I can't call Laurie or Steve over there being Sunday. I'm sure John (camgrinder) grinds the profile as well and he would be the authority as to their pros/cons. I considered them over the 20/21 profile but couldn't get assurances from either John or Web that they would pass CA emissions which was my big hang-up.

Ralph

[asphaltgambler]

Ralph,

Still in the build process, just recommending what I think would work in a hot 3.4 -I traded my complete intake set-up even for a 3.6 plastic set-up courtesey of Kevin from GAS motorsports in Cali

[Jeff Alton]

The 99ss cam has a "happy" 114 lobe center, or is that the RS one.... crap, can't remember now. However the 114 makes it a little more emissions freindly..

Jeff

[Steve@Rennsport]

993 Super Sport cams, aka Cup cams, have 112 deg lobe centers and like to idle around 1000-1100 RPM with a single-throttle intake. I've never been able to get these through any kind of smog testing, even using Motec.

993/964 RS cams have 114 lobe centers and idle FAR better. Those will pass emissions tests.

[Carrera3.5L]

Originally posted by Steve@Rennsport
993 Super Sport cams, aka Cup cams, have 112 deg lobe centers and like to idle around 1000-1100 RPM with a single-throttle intake. I've never been able to get these through any kind of smog testing, even using Motec.

993/964 RS cams have 114 lobe centers and idle FAR better. Those will pass emissions tests.

Steve, you will really need to chime in here more often. It would save alot of typing for all of us.

Thanks for using part of your holiday weekend to help us all out!

Ralph

[porschenut]

Independent throttle bodies, dual plugs, 964 cams, SSI's.

[Steve@Rennsport]

Originally posted by Carrera3.5L
Steve, you will really need to chime in here more often. It would save alot of typing for all of us.

Thanks for using part of your holiday weekend to help us all out!

Ralph

Hi Ralph:

My pleasure sir, and I'll do my level best to try,....

[asphaltgambler]

My Super cup cams are from John (camgrinder) and I believe he grinds them on a 113 centerline for better low /mid-range.