911 spec class?

[nostatic]

There is some discussion starting at POC concerning a 911 spec class. There already is a very competitive (and fairly cheap) 944 spec class that runs. Cup-type cars are somewhat the defacto "spec", but they are very expensive to build and run. The idea would be to come up with rules that make for roughly equivalent cars that don't break the bank.

Any ideas/thoughts? My initial inclination would be to use 74-89 as the rough starting point, spec a max tire/suspension setup, then handicap for hp somehow. Probably do something like 16x7/9 max, 21/20 sway max, 22/28 t-bars max.

[Bill Verburg]

You mean like this

[jorian]

Well... yeah, sorta exactly like that....

Looks perfect. Similar to the 944 series in Aus. If you enter Bill, hopefully they don't lift the engine lid.

Is this series already running? Where and when do they run?

[nostatic]

yeah, that looks pretty good. My car is almost there

[Vipergrün]

Hmmm, maybe we can get TRE, Elephant, Pelican and others to provide some sponsor stickers per the Toyo Cup specs. If I get my SC back, it will be ready except for cage and the Boxster brakes would have to come off. Looks like a really fun series! Todd, you considering going to 8's and 9's?

[Vipergrün]

Actually, looks like the rules changed for 2005 per this site;
http://www.porscheracingclub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=425

Looks like Boxster brake would be legal...

Where all do they run this series? California only?

[addictionMS]

Northern CA mostly, kind of the NorCal version of the POC.

check out www.911cup.com and http://www.porscheracingclub.com/

[BGCarrera32]

The real thing that needs to happen is to get all the cars in the "spec" race class on the same tire, and something that lasts substantially longer than the Hoosier S04. Use a Pilot Sport Cup or a Dunlop variation that will last the whole weekend or a race or two. Talk with the regular club racers and they'll tell you that 2-3 sets of tires at each club race weekend is the norm, not the exception. Figure $2500 on tires...

[nostatic]

hmm...they took out the weight penalty for bigger engines. Not sure the reasoning behind that. I suppose the throttle limiting takes care of that to a certain extent, but not until you have a couple races done.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by BGCarrera32
The real thing that needs to happen is to get all the cars in the "spec" race class on the same tire, and something that lasts substantially longer than the Hoosier S04. Use a Pilot Sport Cup or a Dunlop variation that will last the whole weekend or a race or two. Talk with the regular club racers and they'll tell you that 2-3 sets of tires at each club race weekend is the norm, not the exception. Figure $2500 on tires...

The RA-1 is a good choice. I've got a bunch of events on a set already, and that is with driving to and from the track.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by bb80sc
Hmmm, maybe we can get TRE, Elephant, Pelican and others to provide some sponsor stickers per the Toyo Cup specs. If I get my SC back, it will be ready except for cage and the Boxster brakes would have to come off. Looks like a really fun series! Todd, you considering going to 8's and 9's?

I can't go to 8/9s and stay in my current class. I want to get my cup license next year and do W2W, so I'll make changes to the car as soon as the STS season is over (Dec). I would *really* like to do a spec 911 series though, as bumping up to V3 (the most competitive class at POC) seems like it would cost a lot more money. The GSR 944 spec class looks really fun but I have a tough time getting excited about a 944...

[addictionMS]

hmm...they took out the weight penalty for bigger engines. Not sure the reasoning behind that. I suppose the throttle limiting takes care of that to a certain extent, but not until you have a couple races done.

we limit the intakes, and a stock 3.2 is about the same as a 3.0 with webers, so there was no need to vary the weight. So far we are running about 3-5 sec a lap differential across the field (12 cars) at Thunderhill, depending on the day. On a fast day the top cars are in the 2:04s, mid pack is 2:08, bringing up the rear is 2:09s. Last weekend Sundays races fastest was 2:07s, back of the pack was 2:10s.

So pretty close.

A big factor in the great racing is the random drawing for the start, and then reversing it on Sunday. So it evens itself out over the weekend.

Jim

[Vipergrün]

Originally posted by nostatic
I can't go to 8/9s and stay in my current class. I want to get my cup license next year and do W2W, so I'll make changes to the car as soon as the STS season is over (Dec). I would *really* like to do a spec 911 series though, as bumping up to V3 (the most competitive class at POC) seems like it would cost a lot more money. The GSR 944 spec class looks really fun but I have a tough time getting excited about a 944...

Oh, I thought you were in Production...sorry.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by addictionMS
we limit the intakes, and a stock 3.2 is about the same as a 3.0 with webers, so there was no need to vary the weight. So far we are running about 3-5 sec a lap differential across the field (12 cars) at Thunderhill, depending on the day. On a fast day the top cars are in the 2:04s, mid pack is 2:08, bringing up the rear is 2:09s. Last weekend Sundays races fastest was 2:07s, back of the pack was 2:10s.

So pretty close.

A big factor in the great racing is the random drawing for the start, and then reversing it on Sunday. So it evens itself out over the weekend.

Jim

gotcha. I checked out the forums at the site...seems like the 3.0 spec is a bit contentious. So you think there's any chance of you guys and POC agreeing on a spec so we could race in each other's series? That would be pretty cool...

[addictionMS]

no idea on how the relations with the POC are, I know a lot of POC cars come up to race once in a while. Also we have been invited to have our own run group in POC days on occation. I think the Toyo Cup cars are pretty cool, but I suspect many would be really out classed in either POC or PCA. I know I have to run GT3S in PCA, talk about being out gunned.

The 3.0 spec is less of an issue than the web leads one to believe, there are only about two who are not on board, and neither have run with the class yet. Most of the issue was over limiting the intake to 40mm webers, but we are backing away from that. The thing that creates the biigest problem is we do not have a governing body who will go out and check the cars for legality. We are self governing, and who has time to check out the legality of someone elses car between runs, not me. So by limiting the spec to things that are easy to check we increase the chances that we will catch an out of spec car. That was the driving force behind the rule change, and it seems that we may just limit venturi size, however the throttle stop "effect" is only measured on weber based cars so if a EFI, MFI, or CIS car ever wins the owner will have to take on some of the expense to figure out how th limit their car and measure the effect to ensure fair racing.

Jim

[TRE Cup]

I've discussed the toyo cup with rich walton to some extent. It makes a LOT of sense. The ONLY way that it will fly in POC is for a group of members to outfit their cars accordingly, then self administrate this "class within a class" not caring about the poc championship. If enough people climb on board from the toyo participants promoting within poc, then the "revolution" can take hold. There are a few top entrants that have tire deals with other manufacturers so you can bet that will be a problem to overcome, as well as the vested interests from shops that have their whammy set ups they may have to reverse. But if there is patience it will result in spectacular close racing with less expense than the current POC structure. I watched the prc at laguna a couple of times and the competition is real; closely packed fields and the mixed starting keeps ya guessing. And getting a few $$ from toyo isn't bad either
What do you say guys- ready to start a revolution?

[nostatic]

Originally posted by TRE Cup
I've discussed the toyo cup with rich walton to some extent. It makes a LOT of sense. The ONLY way that it will fly in POC is for a group of members to outfit their cars accordingly, then self administrate this "class within a class" not caring about the poc championship. If enough people climb on board from the toyo participants promoting within poc, then the "revolution" can take hold.
---
What do you say guys- ready to start a revolution?

well, my car is a prime candidate for this, and I want to do W2W, so I'm in. I've been on the POC board in the thread on this, and we might have a critical mass. In a perfect world we'd have a spec that was compatible between the two clubs (or at least some reciprocity with weight or time penalties).

[TRE Cup]

it would hinge on reciprical event participation too. if poc toyo guys go to prc up north and vice versa. For example: make the championship so you have to participate in 2 reciprical events- i.e. if there is a joint poc/prc event at laguna or Thill, fine, but you will also have to go to another "stand alone" PRC event up north (or POC south) during the season. The fun will be the dates available so there is a minimum of overlap. i think it would be healthy for both clubs (especially if we can have a prc class in tribute to le mans!)

[JonT]

Wouldnt that be the same as an F or G class in PCA?

[nostatic]

we could also require that the cars drive to the track...no trailers