Pre-Muffler Install Has Begun!

KatoKato · 07-06-2005, 05:55 PM

I finally got down to it today.

I got the car up and soaked the rusted bolts with release - all. After a few broken bolts, one I had to drill out, and the very last one which snapped off after much force there was a twisted piece of what was left of the heat shield. Damn I hate that thing!

Since this only took about an hour and I was eager, I decided to skip the "wait overnight while the release-all works" and go at the first rusted bolt I could see holding the cat. converter to the muffler. I couldn't tell whether it was a 13mm or 12mm bolt as the 13 fit, yet the 12 was tighter after a good solid hammering job. (could anyone tell me which?)

After appling much force in a counter-clockwise direction with my trusty wrench (I'm hoping these bolts aren't reverse threaded or some whacked-out nonsense like that) nothing happened. Then I decided to try the hammer. Nothing. Then I tried my socket wrench.

The bolt started to turn. Only slightly. Then again. Then:

&

Ok ... maybe I'm jumping the gun here.

Are these bolts so rusted and seized that I'm not going to be able to get this job done?

I've sprayed more release-all on tonight in hopes that things will be "easier" tomorrow. Is this typical?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Kato

Spede · 07-06-2005, 06:13 PM

You may have to cut the bolt off if it won't budge anymore.

Warviking · 07-06-2005, 06:21 PM

I just installed a sport cat. The bolts for the muffler weren't that hard. I think 1 the head broke off, 1 came loose, and the 3rd I had to cut off the head. Now the bolts going from the cat to the exchangers was a different story. Most of those were so rusted I just couldn't get a wrench/ratchet on them. I ended up cutting the nuts off all of them. 1 actually decided to act like a stud. Had the nut and the cat off and beat on it with a hammer. Eventually I just cut it short and had to drill it out. Put a lot of hours in on this project, but now I have all stainless bolts.

JeremyD · JeremyD's Garage

A dremel can be your friend

ghnat · ghnat's Garage

Mine were rusted so badly I had to use a bolt extractor on the ones before the CAT. Some of the nuts almost blended in with the rust and were rounded off as well. My job was a little easier with the engine out of the car, but it was still a PITA. I am not sure how long it would have taken me if I had to work under the car... Muffler side was a little easier, I think I got some of those bolts off after MANY nights of soaking them in PB Blaster.

MotoSook · 07-06-2005, 06:32 PM

Torch....oxy-acet..20 minutes. Find a friend with a mobile rig...

If you don't have a torch...build up your patience b4 you get to the big flange in front. Good luck.

JeremyD · JeremyD's Garage

#1 PB Blaster at least three days in advance - soak every night.
At least 3/8" hardware - a longer cheater bar is better (minimum of 15")

Dremel Tool - with a big cut off disk - fiberglass - slit the nuts down the side -

If that fails - drive the car to your local muffler shop - supervise while the get it on a lift - no crushed brake lines - have them cut the bolts off with a torch - enjoy a nice un muffled ride home...

tip the guy a $20!

david.avery · david.avery's Garage

Yeah, the nuts decompose into something else, like little steel acorns. I was able to use a 12 and a 13, depending upon the location. Truth be told, I had to cut everyone except the one that broke. I wish I went with the decision to cut sooner rather than trying to work with all of these fasteners.

DW SD · 07-06-2005, 08:24 PM

Air chisel will lop the heads off of bolts very quickly, too. Just have to be sure what it hits behind it. Use a 2X4 for backup.

Doug

jtratza · 07-06-2005, 08:47 PM

I second the local muffler shop as the easy way to "git er done". The shop took of all the bolts and nuts in a few minutes for $20. I bought replacement bolts and nuts and drove home where I finished the job in 15 minutes.

TCB · 07-06-2005, 08:59 PM

Hey all you guys that have gone through this, how hard is it to get the O2 sensor off so it is reusable. I'm doing the same thing Kato is. Kato maybe you have taken yours off by now..
Terry

jtratza · 07-06-2005, 09:52 PM

No problem. Make sure the car sits overnight. Use a liquid wrench type product to soak the joint and a big wrench that fits well. Tap the wrench with a hammer to start. Should come off.

KatoKato · 07-07-2005, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeremy964
#1 PB Blaster at least three days in advance - soak every night.
At least 3/8" hardware - a longer cheater bar is better (minimum of 15")

Dremel Tool - with a big cut off disk - fiberglass - slit the nuts down the side -

If that fails - drive the car to your local muffler shop - supervise while the get it on a lift - no crushed brake lines - have them cut the bolts off with a torch - enjoy a nice un muffled ride home... tip the guy a $20!

Thanks everyone for all of the advice.

Q#1 I'm thinking that option#3 (muffler shop w/ oxyacet torch) is what I'll do. I don't have a cutting tool (Dremel) so I don't think this job warrants the cost.

Q#2 Is it o.k. to drive home with the cat. removed? I'm sure it will be freakin' loud.

Thanks again,
Kato

KatoKato · 07-07-2005, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TCB
Hey all you guys that have gone through this, how hard is it to get the O2 sensor off so it is reusable. I'm doing the same thing Kato is. Kato maybe you have taken yours off by now..
Terry

No, not even close.

I just bought a new O2 sensor as I don't know how old mine is. Besides if I have the misfortune of a road-side inspection and get the $500 fine for not having a cat. then at least I'll have the cat. w/ O2 sensor intact.

While we're on the subject of O2 sensors I have a couple of more questions.

1) Mine does not have one of those funky O2 sensor guards that sits on top of the sensor. Do I purchase those online or make one myself?

2) The old O2 sensor looks like it ends in a round terminal. How do I disconnect it without destroying the sensor and/or terminal?

Thanks,
Kato

jtratza · 07-07-2005, 05:31 AM

Be prepared for the muffler shop to not take the cat off without putting it back on. In Texas (at least in Houston) they can not remove the cat and let the customer drive off. And the shop I used did not have the correct size bolts so I had to walk to a shop close by (lucky for me) and buy some replacements.

KatoKato · 07-07-2005, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jtratza
Be prepared for the muffler shop to not take the cat off without putting it back on. In Texas (at least in Houston) they can not remove the cat and let the customer drive off. And the shop I used did not have the correct size bolts so I had to walk to a shop close by (lucky for me) and buy some replacements.

Thanks for the tip. I was thinking about this as well. I have all nine replacement bolts. I'm assuming that once the bolts are out each of the three exhaust connections will be somewhat "rusted-together" and perhaps I'd have them put one bolt in each. That would be sufficient I think.

JeremyD · JeremyD's Garage

Just take them all - easy to get on/off once you get the rusted ones off

jtratza · 07-07-2005, 06:16 AM

Jeremy's right. I take mine off and put back on every year. I can pass all the test's except NOx without the cat.

Nine9six · Nine9six's Garage

I cut all mine off with a cutoff wheel, and used a punch to knock out the bolts that were rusted in tight. All fasteners were replaced with stainless bolts, washers and nylock nuts. All thds were coated with antisieze compound. After all, who would like to do this nasty job twice?!
Best of luck to you.

JeremyD · JeremyD's Garage

Nylock? Won't that melt? Also when you replace, replace with stainless bolts and copper or silicon bronze nuts or the stainless on stainless will gall, especially if it's a lower grade stainless.