Optimoly HT antiseize -- source?
 

I made an impulse purchase of a $99 cordless impact wrench today, and now am concerned that it could conceivably snap one of my lug studs, since I've always fitted the steel lug nuts dry.

Optimoly HT is (I think) the Porsche-approved antiseize, but I have no idea of a vendor that sells it, online or otherwise.

Does anyone know of a source?

I'd think Stoddart or another Porsche parts counter. Also from BMW: Optimoly High temperature part# 18 21 9 062 599 Never-seize

A suggested replacement is: Honda pro Moly 60 Paste (from cycle dealerships)
• 60% Moly grease formula.
• Contents are solid and will not separate at room temperature.
• Recommended for bearings, gears and other high-pressure/high-temperature applications.
• Use where Moly 45 is suggested.


OR

Wurth SIG-3000


Pelican offers:

NR-OPTIMOLY PASTE
- This is a special-order, non-returnable, part
(availability and shipping charges may vary).
OEM-00004300400 $25.79

OE Lubromoly CV Joint Grease
LM-2004 $3.80




Perhaps LubeMaster will chime in.

Motobins is an online UK company specializing in parts for BMW motorcycles. They carry Optimol Optimoly Anti-Sieze... whether it is the right one I don't know. Good luck in your search.

http://www.motobins.co.uk

The Optimoly HT is the recommended lube for the G50 release fork and other extreme temperature applications but it is complete overkill for lug nuts. Any antiseize is more then enough for this as it isn't a bearing surface.

Ok...some more research. There was thread here in the past. Porsche dealers (Sunset and Stoddart are mentioned) should carry.... Optimoly HT is part # 000 043 004 00 (this is the Pelican Special order product I listed above).
Be careful there's also an Optimoly TA.

Apparently Bruce Andersen states that there are many other good anti-siezes but only the HT has been tested to not alter torques.


Here's the thread: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=183934&highlight=Optimo ly

Maybe Optimolly has the same effect on tightening threaded fasteners as oil, but same as dry? I doubt it, especially if it's a lube.

Jack. I wouldn't knock yourself out looking for Porsche-correct antiseize. Pep Boys or any auto or industrial parts house should have the equivalent (Snap-On, Permatex, etc.).

Sherwood

Optimoly HT appears to be just a very sticky copper antisieze. I use it on motors where Porsche specs it but it's overkill for wheel lug nuts I think. Any good antisieze should do for those.

I haven't tried it yet but I bet that the "dry" antisieze that comes in crayon form would be great for lug nuts.

-Chris

JW posted 000 043 024 00 for tranny/clutch high temp&psi applications.

and ditto on wheel nuts.. any car parts store should have the silver. The pain is trying to find nickel anti-seize.

"The pain is trying to find nickel anti-seize."

The larger industrial supply houses should carry the whole gamut of AS lubes (McMaster, Grainger, etc.). I had to double check I didn't type an extra S in the above acronym. :)

Sherwood

always at hand in the Bassett Garage...
Permatex 133K Advanced formula
good for up to 1600f
lists engine head bolts and exhaust as uses on back of container.
-Jeremy

"complete overkill for lug nuts"
- Porsche did not think so. They put out a TSB that says to use it.

I had the same thought as Sherwood - how can it do that? But that is what BA says in his article - and it is based on the factory TSB and some other factory sources. So...

Obviously it isn't going to kill you to use a different antisieze.

"Porsche did not think so. They put out a TSB that says to use it."

Use "it" versus what? I can understand some folks not using anything and thus the TSB.

Manufacturers all have "approved" brands (e.g., gasket sealers, oil, filters, etc.). It could mean no other brand works or has been approved. However, this doesn't necessarily mean another brand won't work. So, should you then use Mobil 1 or whatever the current Porsche-approved lube oil is? Does that also apply to 30 year old cars? If not, should Optimoly as well? I'd have to see the TSB and read what it says about lug nuts.

Sherwood

Kopr-Kote is good for 1800 degrees or so. There's also some nickel impregnated stuff good to 2600.

it = HT (and one other by Optimolly)

- post the TSB if you get a true copy

I think the BA article was in Exl. or maybe Pano. He relates it to the torque characteristics.

Jack:
Are you saying you put your lug nuts on with an imact wrench? I'd recommend using a torque wrench, if that's the case, and use any readily available anti-seize compound. I have always used anti-seize on my lug bolts, and have had zero trouble with them.

A local parts store near me sells Lubromoly and Optimoly. I use the gear oil in my trans. The product labels are all written in German, so I don't know what's in the stuff. Fortunately, the product numbers are in English.

Pat

thx for the reply

when I was checking around at the usual suspects I had a prob finding a single can. I also wanted the Graphite 50 anti-seize for spark plugs. I eventually got someone to open a box of each and they apologized for charging me list. They were Loctite prod.

and fwiw. I bought all new nuts at 100k mi figuring the alloy nuts were beat. No hard info on my mental prob.

I use Locktite #77164 Nickel Anti-Seize, but I get it free at work, its good up to 2000F (I know it's overkill but if it's good enough for jet engines it should be good enough for my lugnuts). Note that it can make a mess and will stain your clothes. I don't know what it costs but I'm sure any place that sells Locktite can get it. I have also used another grade of anti-seize from Locktite that is bright silver in color and worked fine. It is important to mention that torque values are calculated under the assumption that the threads are lubricated.

Well, I ordered the PCNA part through our host. I don't expect I'll pay $25 for something like that again in my lifetime, but I'll incorporate the cost into the cheap tool.

I'll only use the impact wrench for removing the nuts. For putting them on, I'll continue to use a torque-adjustable cordless drill followed by a torque wrench. The new toy will just save me having to break them each loose by hand. Plus, I can use it for less-sensitive jobs.

I don't recommend using anti-seize on your wheel nuts. First of all, if you use the anti-seize, then that will change the torque value when you tighten them, and you may accidentally put them on loose. I have not seen the factory technical bulletin, but if you have the number, I have a bookshelf of about 2500 of them. Lug nuts are just one thing I don't want to mess around with...

-Wayne

Every design engineering book and bolted joint guide that I have read states that the formulas for calculating torque values assumes that the threads are lubricated. I don't see how antisieze would cause you to put lugnuts on too loose, I think there is a greater risk that the nuts will be put on loose without antisieze because the friction in the threads could cause binding and prevent the nuts from reaching the true torque value that corresponds to the designed clamp load and stud stretch. We are talking about nuts and studs that have been used probably hundreds of times and in all likelyhood the threads are worn or galled beyond the original specs.

I'll go along with Cory on this; it's what I was told back in school.
Alternately, use the farmer method...tighten it until it squeaks!
Pat

With Anti-Sieze Compound: Add a few ft/lbs to your torque wrench.

Without Anti-Sieze Compound: Never get the damn lug nuts off.

Hmmmm...

Actually, compared to using no antisieze, you would reduce the torque applied. Since up to 80% of the torque applied goes to overcoming friction, lubricant will reduce the torque necessary to get the same amount of bolt stretch.

The only downside of using antisieze on the lug nuts (that I can see) is that you need to keep the the nuts out of the dirt when changing tires. Otherwise, dirt will stick to antisieze.
-Chris

Electrolysis. Perhaps not so much with steel against steel, but in a pcar, you have two dissimilar metals (Al and Fe). Add moisture and road salts, without antiseize between the two, and over time, material will transfer, gall and/or corrode and prevent the parts from separating.

And that's besides any torque irregularities.

MHO,
Sherwood

Here's some real information that is based on engineering standards:
Suppose you were torquing a bolt or nut, the torque is determined by stress area, bolt tension, and friction factor. The type of lubricant determines the friction factor. The higher the number the more torque you would need to apply to get the same bolt tension. Here are a few examples that do not directly reflect on 911 lug studs and aluminium nuts, they are for comparison only to show friction factors of various versions of anti-sieze. The numbers reflect the amount of torque to obtain identical bolt tension:
Dry lube with disc washer-72#
Molybdenum disulfide - 66#
Moly/Lead oxide/graphite paste 82#
copper/graphite paste 92#
Nickel/graphite paste 99#
API SA2 K=.157 103#
machine oil 132#
dry steel 290#

Note how much more torque is required for dry threads. This is one reason I don't believe in re-torquing engine fasteners after 500 miles, the friction factor has changed dramatically after that many miles so you don't get reliable readings.

Anti-sieze isn't normally chosen because of it's friction factor, it is chosen because of it's ability to prevent galling of threads.

My point? I guess it is to show that anti-sieze DOES change the torque especially when compared to dry threads, as in it requires 1/3 of the torque with anti-sieze when compared to dry to get the same tension.

Well, this is becoming more interesting. I change wheels very frequently, so seizing has never been an issue. Using the impact wrench to pull them will be more convenient, but I don't want to apply inappropriate stress to the studs themselves. They heat cycle a lot, and are not young. If one of those breaks at 130, it could lead to big problems.

I use steel lug nuts. If Porsche recommends using anti-seize with them, I'll use it. But if I need to start setting my torque wrench to something other than 94 foot pounds, I'd like to know.

Maybe someone could dig up the technical bulletin so we can see what the company line is?

I don't have a copy.

Sammy - what everyone is missing in this is that the specific item mentioned may well not be the same as older anti-siezes or other types. I don't know, but my understanding is that some chemical companies have found a way to put crystaline structures of some sort into various products. That might be involved here. Also, my chemistry degree is just a Bachelors and it was eons ago...

I suppose they could develop an anti-sieze product that had a high coefficient of friction to mimic dry threads, but I've never heard of a product like that.

I checked my factory manuals, no mention of lubricating the lug threads at all, the only mention of anything about the lugs was to torque them to 94 ft. lbs.
I found an article for the 996 lug nuts, it said to lubricate the threads but not the ball seat. Weird.
I'll have to check my owner's manual when I get home to see what it recommends.
I wonder what the 914club.com board has to say about this topic? (hint hint) ;)

PANO August 1972

"Alloy lug nuts should never be installed or removed with an impact wrench. ...... with the threads and radiused seat well lubricated...... "

Below is from a search using "lug nuts"

Trivia...Charles A Stoddard said "As always, the lug nuts securing the wheels should be lightly lubricated on the radiused face and threads".........Ron



As per the instructions on my newly purchased (at the dealer) anti theft lugs:
"lightly grease the threads and cones, tighten to 130 NM"
GeorgeK



From the '84-'89 factory manuals:
Page: 44-6
Removing and Installing Wheels on Car

1. Use special tool P 300 in perfect condition. (everyone has one, right?)... Never use impact tools.
2) Lubricate threads and nut contact base with Optimoly TA.
3) Always tighten nuts to specified torque of 130 Nm (94 ftlb).

I could not find a similar reference to Optimoly in the earlier manuals. All torque specs were for 94 ft/lbs though.

Scott

Quick:
Somebody run down to the dealer with a lug wrench and see if the studs and nuts are lubricated.

fwiw.. there was a post that said the new p cars have silver plated lug bolts to eliminate the use of lube because some jerks wound up smearing enough lube for it to get on the rotors.


SmileWavy

In the workshop manual for my 88 - WKD 482 020 under wheels , tires, alignment Volume 3 page 44-6 it says lubricate threads and contact base with Optimoly TA. The local Porsche shop told me that was run of the mill antiseize.

"fwiw.. there was a post that said the new p cars have silver plated lug bolts to eliminate the use of lube because some jerks wound up smearing enough lube for it to get on the rotors."

May be true. Don't know, but how would this prevent the same jerk from smearing enough lube for it to get on the rotors? :)

I'm always thinking "lowest common denominator". It's my job.

Sherwood