Info for R12 users
 

I thought I would pass this info along to all of you that still need or like AC in their cars. I recently had to replace a hose in my ac system and needed to replace the refrigerant. I had been reading some literature on the environmentally safe R12 replacements so I thought I'd give them a try. For the past three weeks of 110+ temps in Phoenix I'm running 55 degrees out of the center vents with a completely stock 80 SC system, including the York compressor. 45 PSI on the low pressure side at 113 degrees outdoor temps. With the cost of R12, $18 for a full charge is a bargain. Name of the product is Enviro-Safe.

Hey Chris~

Where can you get the stuff? Can you post a picture of the container of refrigerant?

I found it on the web from a place in Michigan. No EPA cert needed to purchase. I can't post pics now because my camera is on the fritz. autorefrigerants.com is the place. 5 oz replaces 15 oz of R12. Af ull system charge is 47 oz on my car, but I could only get 3 full cans in and it was full after pulling a vacuum.

Chris,

How hot does your oil temp get? Can you run your AC sitting in traffic without getting too hot?

About 180 as long as I'm moving. It shot up to 210 the other day sitting in a drive through line for about five minutes.

Thanks Chris!

I figured out my girlfriends camera; here's a pic.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1121911919.jpg

Chris
Did you have to replace all the R12 to use it or could you "top off"? Is this DIY'able?

My system was completely flat due to a leaking hose over the winter. It is compatible with R12, but because of the differences, 5 oz = to 15oz of R12, you could easily over charge your system. If you have access to a vacuum pump and a set of HVAC gauges, you can do it yourself. The hardest thing for me with the York compressor was removing the compressor from the mounting plate to connect the hose to the low side, then securing the compressor to run the system to get actual pressures.

I forgot to mention that you would need to recover the R12 if you were going to replace it. Your system will pretty much tell you when it's full by not allowing anymore refrigerant in.

How do you evacuate the system when you refill it yourself? Did you borrow the equipment, and if so, what did you use?

Chris,

Used this stuff for years now and love it. First batch was called freeze-12 but the last batch was ES-12. Outlet temps on my "airport car" have been in the 38-40 degree range, and thats excellent in Phoenix when its 110 outside.

It will mix with R-12 and works much better than R-134. Price is $6-$7 a can. No, I do not sell it, just happy to find something to keep me cool in the summer here that I can afford!

There is a local seller if you are interested. I have a vacuum pump and gauges if anyone is interested. Charge is a bottle of an adult beverage! :)

Joe A

Kurt, I didn't have to recover my system because it was flat. I have the equipment to recover refrigerant, but not for R12, only commercial refrigerants. I don't have a recovery tank for R12. I just pulled a vacuum to remove any moisture from the system using a vacuum pump and gauges to see if the vacuum held to ensure no leaks.

Joe, could you let me know where the local supplier is? 38-40 is unbelievable. Normally 56 is a good output for auto AC.

edit; Joe, which compressor are you running?

hahah, how did you pull the vacuum?
Sorry...MY ac is working. I know you can get various R12 substitutes, so I'm wondering should this come up in the future for me.

Sorry Kurt, I used a vacuum pump. I have a commercial version, but Harbor Freight sells a pretty inexpensive one. You'll need a set of HVAC gauges to read how far it pulls into a vacuum and if it holds to show no leaks.

edit; I should add if you need to recover R12 or 134a the use of a recovery pump and recovery tank specific to the type of refrigerant to be recovered must be used.

thanks chris.

Is this stuff pretty much the same as Duracool? Which is pretty much higher grade propane?

alf

Alf, I'm not sure about Duracool. Normally the issue with any refirgerant is the temperature at which it's flammable. Here are the specs on these refrigerants.
Properties
R-12
R-134a
ES-12a

Atmospheric Lifetime Year
130
16
less than 1

G.W.P.(global-warming-potential)
(CO2=.05)
3650
600
4

O.D.P.
(R-12=1.0)
1.0
0
0

Thermal Performance
0
-8%
+12-32%

Oils Compatibility
Mineral
Synthetic
Both

Components, changes and/or wear
No
Yes
No

Potential Corrosion
Yes
Yes
No

Toxic Thermal Decomposition
Phosgene Gas
Hydrogen Fluoride Gas
None

Long Term Health Effects
None
Testicular Cancer
None

Short Term Health Risks
None
Can cause sudden death without warning


None

Leak Detection
Halide
Halide
Hydrocarbon

Boiling Point (F)
-21
-15
-30.4

Critical Temp. (F)
233.6
214
205

Auto-ignition (F) 0 psi
Nonflammable
1411
1585

Auto-ignition (F) 5.5 psi
Nonflammable
368
1585

bought a pound of freeze-12 here in arkansas about 2 months ago..it was $25, plus a $25 charge to put it in. unfortunately, i must have a leak because the 'freeze' only lasted a month. i'm wondering if they really knew how to fully charge a 911 though..not a car (read 'pickup truck') that they regularly see..;) we were understandably concerned about airflow across the condenser during the fill..they kept the lid up and put one of those huge shop fans (like 5 feet tall) behind the car..don't know if that was good enough. and what about idle speed while you fill? should you use 1000 rpm? 2000 rpm?
ryan

Ryan, if the system is in a vacuum prior to charging it should take an almost full charge. Running the system is really only needed to cycle the system and to check pressure readings. After the system is cycled it would probably only take another ounce or so. It sounds like you have a leak because any AC system is a "closed" system. The site I referenced earlier sells refrigerant with blue die added for leak checking. Hope that helps.

chris,
i'm pretty sure you're right..was just fishing for false hope..lol. anyway, the plan this fall is to replace all hoses with new barrier, new r/d and considering addition of an electric fan to the rear deck condenser once i decide on how to deal with the airbox clearance issue..probably just fab something that seals off around the filter and go without cover and see how that goes.
ryan