Porsche ranked No. 2 in reliability

[IceBlueSC]

Just saw this on the news wire:

Most Dependable
After Three Years
By the Editorial Team, MSN

The most recent J.D. Power and Associates study of the reliability and dependability of vehicles after three years indicates that American brands have improved again, but also that familiar leaders remain.

Eight different models from General Motors earned the top score in their individual categories, while Lexus earned the top brand ranking in the latest J.D. Power study of long-term vehicle dependability.

The 2005 Vehicle Dependability Study measures problem symptoms experienced by original owners of three-year-old vehicles (2002 models) in the U.S. The vehicles are scored based on the number of problems per 100 vehicles (PP100).

Overall, the auto industry showed a remarkable 12 per cent improvement in long-term dependability, according to the study. The industry average improved 32 PP100 compared to 2004, and 84 per cent of vehicle models included in the 2005 VDS also showed year-over-year improvements. The most significant improvements include ride, handling and braking; engine; and interior.

"While the Initial Quality Study [IQS], which measures problems experienced in the first 90 days of ownership can be an indicator of how models will perform over time, our studies consistently show that long-term durability is a tremendously important factor to consumers," said Chance Parker, executive director of product and research analysis at J.D. Power and Associates. "As the number of problems owners experience with their vehicles increases, repurchase intent and the number of recommendations owners will make to others decreases. The study also finds that long-term durability can have a significant impact on a vehicle's retained value."

Toyota's Lexus brand was the top-ranked nameplate for the eleventh consecutive year with just 139 PP100. With the largest percentage improvement year over year, Porsche was ranked second for 2005. The premium American brands Lincoln, Buick and Cadillac filled out the top five spots, respectively.

Top Vehicles By Category

Compact Car
Chevrolet Prizm (not sold in Canada; 'sister' car: Toyota Corolla)

Entry Midsize Car
Chevrolet Malibu

Premium Midsize Car
Buick Century

Full-Size Car
Buick LeSabre

Entry Luxury Car
Ford Thunderbird

Mid Luxury Car
Lincoln Town Car

Premium Luxury Car
Lexus LS 430

Sporty Car
Mazda MX-5 Miata

Premium Sports Car
Porsche 911

Compact Van
Ford Windstar (replaced by the Freestar)

Full-Size Van
Ford E-Series

Entry SUV
Honda CR-V

Midsize SUV
Toyota 4Runner

Full-Size SUV
GMC Yukon + Yukon XL

Entry Luxury SUV
Lexus RX 300 (replaced by the RX 330)

Premium Luxury SUV
Lexus LX 470

Compact Pickup
Chevrolet S-10 (replaced by the Colorado)

Light Duty Full-Size Pickup
Cadillac Escalade EXT

Heavy Duty Full-Size Pickup
Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD

Nameplate Rankings

* Lexus - 139 PP100
* Porsche - 149 PP100
* Lincoln - 151 PP100
* Buick - 163 PP100
* Cadillac - 175 PP100
* Infiniti - 178 PP100
* Toyota - 194 PP100
* Mercury - 195 PP100
* Honda - 201 PP100
* Acura - 203 PP100
* BMW - 225 PP100
* Ford - 231 PP100
* Chevrolet - 232 PP100
* Chrysler - 235 PP100
* Industry Average: 237 PP100
* Saturn - 240 PP100
* Oldsmobile - 242 PP100
* GMC - 245 PP100
* Pontiac - 245 PP100
* Mazda - 252 PP100
* Hyundai - 260 PP100
* Subaru - 260 PP100
* Volvo - 268 PP100
* Jaguar - 268 PP100
* Dodge - 273 PP100
* Nissan - 275 PP100
* Mitsubishi - 278 PP100
* Mercedes-Benz - 283 PP100
* Saab - 286 PP100
* Jeep - 289 PP100
* Suzuki - 292 PP100
* Audi - 312 PP100
* Daewoo - 318 PP100
* Isuzu - 331 PP100
* Volkswagen - 335 PP100
* Mini - 383 PP100
* Land Rover - 395 PP100
* Kia - 397 PP100

Source: J.D. Power and Associates 2005 Vehicle Dependability Study

[hpmad]

hello,

I am simply astonished by the number of problem per vehicules!!! I mean, no company has less than 130 issues per vehicules in 3 years! this is crazy! I do not understand how we, as customer are willing to accept that state, I mean, this looks like dwelling in mediocrity...

I do not know what you guys think about these stats, but to me, it does not look good!

I mean, I would expect than 2 out of 3 customers would never have any problem in a 3 year period, a 33 issues average... not the numbers that we see here...

cyrille

[RallyJon]

Ever taken a JD Power survey? Having done so and seen the flaws in their process, I'll never take their results seriously again.

Not to mention the fact that they have a specially tailored survey so every car brand can win something. Seems like the worst GM turd-o-matics have some JD Power trophy associated with them. "Least Reported Problems By Soccer Moms Who Couldn't Tell if They Were Missing A Wheel"

[RickM]

That's 130 issues amongst 100 vehicles...not each.

[kenikh]

I find that amazing given the recent thread on grenading motors in Boxsters and 996s. I seem to recall that the motors do great for the above given three years; it's when they got older that they tank. I just don't know anymore...

[ckissick]

I've always wondered how JD Power comes up with this stuff. As a life-long member of the VW family (my father's been selling them for 50 years now), I've always been dismayed at VW's poor reliability numbers. I, and no one in my family, has ever had any trouble with all the VW's we've owned.

I put about 250K on an '81 Scirocco with no problems to speak of, and no major engine work. My mother-in-law and my kid's pre-school teacher both had Hondas that spent most of their time in the shop.

I guess there's not really much difference between 1.3 and 3.3 problems per one vehicle. Yes, I'm only one person, but I've always had a rating of 0.0. My 1970 911, on the other hand... Does JD Power rate 35 year old cars?

[B D]

JD sucks there methods are flawed, I got a survey after owning a car just over a month. How many cars have problems within the first month, I didn’t even have 3000 miles under my belt in the car.

[rlh930]

What's a few engine failures among friends? After all, many of the failed engines were replaced under warranty!

Oh, yeah, I put 99K miles on my 75 VW Dasher and had a metric ton of trouble with it, including a catastrophic failure of the cylinder head requiring the whole top end to be replaced (at 70K). Plus tons of electrical problems. So that balances out the 200+K reliable Scirocco.

By comparison both my aircooled 911's have been remarkably reliable, that is, neglecting what I've spent to fix oil leaks. Even the one time the car died on the road (fuel pump fuse) was only a mile from home! This kind of intelligence and loyalty is rare in a car.

[ckissick]

Roger, I never said I owned a 1975 Dasher. I knew better I got my first car in 1975, and it was a 1973 Thing. What a great car. I bought it for $2500, thrashed it on the old logging roads in the mountains for 2 years, then sold it for $3000. Never a bit of trouble.

[Rot 911]

We're number 2! We're number 2!

[Noel]

I don't believe it.

However, we should look at the type of problems. Lexus may have an issue with a misc rattle in the car...the 996 has an issue with the Rear Main Seal (RMS). Each of these only count as one problem.

BTW, the Audi reliability, or lack of, is consistant with my experience with my A4. I'll never own another Audi!!!

[Vintage914Racer]

They have several different surveys. To follow up on your Audi experience, a few months ago they published information showing the 2005 Audi's are 1 point below Lexus and Infnity in reliability.

[Ed Bighi]

As for Mercedes, the days of W124 and W140 are definitely over. Number of issues aside, at least as far as Mercedes is concerned, the choice is either electronic toys like electronic cupholders and power undercoating and breakdowns, or none of this crap and more long term reliability a-la-w124. Not to mention durability through the better materials. In all honesty, I think a lot of the issues for all cars listed above come down to the ammount of electronic bs that is put in all these cars in order to appeal to the average american consumer. In fact that is what is is being mentioned in all the Mercedes forums. Too much junk and inferior materials when compared to just a decade ago.

Just a couple of months back while spending a little too much time figuring out all the tricks in the ventilation/trip computer controls of my mother's E39 BMW (and this isn't even an i-drive E50), I noticed a part of the owner's manual which showed the ventilation controls for the "rest of the world" E39. Three simple mechanical rotary knobs on those. No trip computer. My only issue with what I consider to be a great all around sedan and the last 5 series that looks like a BMW, is in fact the ac/trip computer controls. And again, this isn't even a i-drive or moron guidance device car. This would be solved if I were to bring one in from any other place on the planet outside of the US. I serioulsly think that at least half of the issues for the cars listed would go away if all the unnecessary electonic junk was removed from those vehicles. Or if the vehicles would come in standard ROW spec. As for A4's, my mother previously had a 99 1.8t quattro that never had a single issue. But I still remember the salesmen looking at her funny when she asked for a quattro with a bose stereo, but no winter package, power seats, heated seats, or anything electrical other than the headlights, ac and the power windows. They though it was strange of her to outright refuse any electrical device she did not need even if it cost her nothing. We had to accept power mirrors since there was no choice. After all, my mother and my wife never had a driver's side mirror break in their Mercedes 124's after owning the cars since 86. For those that don't know, go and figure out why they don't break. So again, that A4 served her great since the heated door locks, heated seats, power seats, self adjuting whatever never broke since they were not there. In fact, I had the same power items including the trip computer die in my own Audi. It's always that crap that goes bad.

Who knows, but maybe the Lotus Elise is going to turn out to be one hell of a reliable car. It has all the right ingredients, or should I say, lacks all the ingredients that lead to reliability issues.

[Noel]

While I have had electrical issues with my A4, most of the problems have been suspension arms, power steering racks, wheel bearing, etc. Items that almost never come up with Acura or Lexus cars. What I find interesting is that whenever I had an issue, I would research it on Audiworld, only to find that many others have had the same issue.

Sure the 2005 Audi gets good marks. Just wait until it is outside of warranty.

BTW, the Lotus Elise also has a Toyota engine. With the Rover engine they were junk. When I lived in Pittsburgh, there was a guy that had a rover model that bought it to Mid-Ohio two times a year. In the past several events he never finished a weekend because of mechanical issues.

[911nut]

Originally posted by RallyJon
Ever taken a JD Power survey? Having done so and seen the flaws in their process, I'll never take their results seriously again.

Not to mention the fact that they have a specially tailored survey so every car brand can win something. Seems like the worst GM turd-o-matics have some JD Power trophy associated with them. "Least Reported Problems By Soccer Moms Who Couldn't Tell if They Were Missing A Wheel"

For years JD and Comsumers Reports have been shouting to everybody about the superiority of Japanese cars. Now the pendulum is swinging the other way and the prevalent attitude is "don't confuse me with the facts".
I guess that I really shouldn't be suprised by this. People spread so much mis-information on this board based on hearsay that this lemming-like attitude about imports fits right in. We as a society have become like the Japanese in the fact that we're no longer capable of independant, critical or creative thought. Rather, we form our opinions based on what the media force feeds us.

[stefang]

I think, most significantly, the survey does not take mileage into account. Considering Porsches are, on average, driven much less than every other car in that list they bloody well should be on top.

Stef