My only point in initiating this thread was to point out that the new ZO6 is less expensive than the cheapest 911 and faster than the most expensive 911.

Stephan

Yeah, but I bet the Porsche is more profitable. And isn't that what Porsche is all about these days? ;)
-Chris

The thing that is disappointing is this:

One knows dang well that the new Z06 will not go for anywhere close to sticker.......price difference removed. Damn.

I've got a couple of Porsches, and I obviously love them. But, I feel the need for BIG horsepower. I'd like to own a brute, I guess. I'm aware of the shortcomings, but I have 4 other sports to drive when the urge hits - 4 of the best handling cars ever built. My wife likes driving Vipers, so that's in the mix, along with the Z06, Ford GT, and a handful of others. I also have the fitment problem - I'm 6'4". The "winner" will probably be the car with >450 hp that I can actually drive.

Believe me, I thought about the "Gurney bubble" which has been replicated in the Ford GT he received for his birthday... I guess Phil Remington did the work (a bit nicer than a sledge, IMO)

Not sure I agree. The Fiero was first off a commuter car that was to use as many off the shelf parts as possible. It then evolved into a sportier car only to be killed by the MR2 and bad press from early model engine fires. Nothing to do with Corvette concept or evolution.

The prototype/concepts that I'm referring to are below...some of which looked to be very close to production..... (sorry for the hijack)

From http://www.idavette.net/prototyp.htm



1968 Astro II-XP-880
http://www.idavette.net/cars/xp880.jpg




1970 Corvette XP-882
http://www.idavette.net/cars/xp882p.jpg




1976 XP-882 - Aerovette
http://www.idavette.net/cars/76aero.jpg



Cerv III / Indy
http://www.idavette.net/cars/cerv3.gif

That's one story I heard too. But IIRC, Road and Track stated that the Fiero was beginning to compete with the Corvette in performance, and GM simply wouldn't have that, particularly from a car with, as you say, a commuter history to it.

Unless you put a Ferrari body kit on them, and then they are cool. ;)

Rick,

The 1976 XP-882 - Aerovette design looks very similiar to the Delorean DMC-12. Is this something John Delorean worked on before going out on his own? Anybody know.

FYI - Those prototype vettes were also Rotary powered. The XP-882 had a 4 Rotor engine in it. I have a whole page in my RX-7 coffee table book about GM's experiments with the Rotary. The Vega* was supossed to be rotary powered but GM ditched it because of the emission laws of '74. They could not get the engine to burn clean.


I drove a Z-06 during fun runs at an Autocross. I sat in the car thinking about all the things I have read on the internet and in car magazines about how amazing this car is. Nothing short of an American miracle.

I expected way more than the car gave. Yes, it was pretty strong and it turned o.k. but it was not what I was expecting. I found it to feel rather large and cumbersome.

In defense of that Z-06, I had just driven a supercharged Miata with 320RWHP and it was nothing short of amazing. It felt like my RX-7 except smaller and more nimble. It blew me away and made me want to own one right then and there. After that drive the Z-06 was just o.k.


**edit** not Monza, Vega

But did you drive the new one....?

They certainly have a great ad agency these days:
 

He didn't drive a new one--nobody but the press has, outside of GM. Must have been a 2001 or 2002, which were C5-based and were simply an LS6 engine in place of the LS1 in an otherwise-standard C5. the new ZO6 is an entirely new car, made of aluminum and magnesium with carbon fiber front fenters and a totally different engine (LS7).

Stephan

Tack on about 10-15k for actual price from the dealer.......unfortunately.

Yes, I know :)

Dave - do you still have your Lotus? BTW: I took a former Corvette C5 (non-Z06) owner for a ride in my '04 M3 last night. About the time I went sideways in 2nd gear he said ' why would anybody buy a Corvette when they could have this for the same money?'. That said, I love the C6 although I could never see myself buying one for some reason??? -- Curt

BTW: my M3 is for sale. 2004, carbon black, SMG, 28K miles.

A friend recently let me drive her 2001 vette. Some serious torque there...quite a fast car. What I found most strange was the console and thus the stick shift was positioned way too high. And I also found myself wanting to shift at only 3k rpm. The car dam near sounded and felt like it was redlining at only 3k rpm!
My 911 is much more exciting to drive.

Fits into the "arse for every saddle" category ;-)

Now that's funny.

Put stuff like that in the next book...

Stopped by the local dealer yesterday.

Most dealerships are getting 1 maybe (if they are BIG) 2 of the '06 ZO6. Like Craig said dealer markup is going to be BIGGG.

I don't buy cars that cost over MSRP so I won't be driving one.
(I still laugh at the the poor saps who bought PT Cruisers at $5K over msrp locally)

Close to the cost of a 997 I suspect when all is said and done if they are that limited.

Also heard from the sales manager about the "new" limited edition ZO6 already in the works.. only something like 150 being built with 600+hp and similar torque numbers. Only one reason is the word from GM...to own the Ring.

No I did not, but, just like the ones of old a lot of hype is being thrown around about it. So once again it is an engineering miracle.

I will get an opportunity to toss one around eventually. Most people at the autocross love to trade rides with me and I have no problem sharing. I have had to opportunity to drive a lot of interesing cars over the years.

**edit**

I do not like Corvettes. I have had to battle them in the SCCA in AX for years with rules scewed in their favor. In ASP they were permitted to have 250+ more HP than I. In BP where I could match their HP and whoopup on them the SCCA hit me with weight penalties due to an RX-7 kicking butt at the national level. So, yeah, I am not a huge fan of Vettes and root for the M-3's and Turbo Porsches and RX-7's to win in SS every year. Unfortunatly there are usually 50+ Covettes in SS every year so the chances of a lone M-3 or Porsche winning are pretty slim.

This is not hype:

198 mph demonstrated top speed.
1.04G skidpad.
11.7 seconds and 125 mph in the quarter.
Seven minutes 43 seconds around the Nordschleife, a production-car lap time exceeded only by the Carrera GT--not by any production Ferrari, any Viper, any Ford GT, any 911.
$65,000 (plus dealer markup, regrettably, but it's still Chevy's achievement).
400+ ft.-lbs. torque ( of a max 470) available from 2,400 to 6,400 rpm.
7,000 rpm redline--the fastest turning smallblock ever (yes, it's a Mousemotor, not a Rat even though it's a 427).
Curb weight 3,132 pounds.

Stephan

I asked my favorite ex-SS-multi-National-Champ if he was buying one. Nope, says he.....something about being past the point of buying the latest thing. I tole him he was getting old....tho he's about 6mos younger than me. :D

Don't really matter, he still kicks ass in his "old" ought 6.
...localy at least.

Steve -

I know there are 'rules' for disclosure of info prior to a certain magazine release date --- but do you have any pictures or any other subjective info you can give?

Wicked. Sounds awesome. Let's all go buy one, then turn this into a Corvette board! :rolleyes:

ianc

Porsche is never going to build a affordible supercar . TheZ06 is really cool though but if64k+++ is the paramiter Id take 64k and build a911 turbo car and give Craig11 a run for pinks!

........funny, I *just* finished watching the show 'PINKS'....

For about 50k total (current plus mods) I'll have 505 hp at the wheels. On an all new 930 (actually, 28 hrs)
Pink time. ;-)
-------------------------------------------

Above all, one must realize that the new Z06 is indisputably an incredible car. One of the world's best. Objectively so.
Buuuut.....

ianc--Gee, you're readin' it.

Craig--those numbers are the core subjective information, and no, there aren't any limitations at this point regarding what I can tell you, and the buff books are out our about to be out with their road tests anyway.

Pictures: It looks exactly like a C6 except for a very small air inlet at the front of the hood, brake-air-out ducts behind the front wheels and air-in scoops just aft of the doors. And a ZO6 badge on each front fender. Otherwise, you'd never know the difference.
the real difference is under the skin. They had a "naked" ZO6 at the press intro, and it was pretty amazing. Nearly every single piece of the car's structure, engine, driveline and suspension was either aluminum or magnesium. the only steel I could find was the exhaust system, rear axles, sway bars, a very small lateral tubular member that goes under the dash and a few nuts and bolts. Even every bracket on the engine is aluminum.

The engine is a C6R engine with an emissions-legal exhaust system. Not "like a C6R engine," it is a C6R engine. Titanium rods, CNC-milled ports, etc.

Stephan

Steve your wasting your breath on some of these guys. Most of us hear you but a few of these guys hear what they need to hear, I guess.

You say "this car is an awesome bang for the buck car." "This car has these phenomenal stats and is the real deal" and some of the guys hear, "It is better than your 911". As though no car can have great stats without it being some kind of insult, some black mark to Porsche owners!

I get what you're saying entirely, and I agree. The way I feel is we're all "car guys" that OUGHT to mean we appreciate ALL cars for what they are. Doesn't (and shouldn't) mean we want to OWN every kind of car.

Honda, Toyota, GM andothers all make some excellent cars FOR THEIR INTENDED PURPOSE....which is mostly NOT the same purpose as a Porsche 911. I'm not threatened when other make good cars, I am encouraged by it.

These guys that have to call other cars disparaging names and tell you we should "all buy them and make this into a Corvette board" are essentially telling you to shut up. Most of us are NOT. I say thanks for bringing it up. Idon't think you had the slightest intention of "converting the zealots", I think you were just enthused like a real car guy should be. I'll get flamed for this, oh well, tough!

I agree. The 'vette keeps getting closer & closer to the 911 - or, in some respects, better.

The use of alloys reminds me of the way the 911 used to be made...
BTW the vette has a Ti exhaust system...

I'm not telling anyone to shut up. I'm sure the new Z06 is a fabulous car in every way, it just doesn't really interest me because it's missing all those qualities that make Porsches so intriguing to me.

The obvious answer would be just to take myself away and not visit this thread anymore, which I believe I'll do. So continue, with my best wishes, to discuss among yourselves,

ianc

Randy, I'm not sure what part of the exhaust is titanium, but there's a whole lot of 3"-diameter tubing, real sewer pipes, from the cats right below the headers down the center tunnel leading to huge mufflers back aft--with flapper valves that straight-pipe 'em at 3.500 rpm. Is it all titanium?

Stephan

I agree. We wouldn't be reading nearly as much chest-thumping B.S. if this thread were about the Lotus Elise...

"Is it all titanium?"

I don't know. I happened to see that all or part of it was Ti when perusing some info for a company involved in Ti refining.

FWIW, MB has some sort of new muffler packing technology that helps it make their mufflers lighter wt. ....

----------------------------

On the broader issue - it is perfectly valid to compare our brand with others.

I dont like Corvettes. <y reason is due to the fact that the SCCA caters to them. Someone mentioned the Elise. As soon as it came out I thought Vette killer in SS in the SCCA AX. Then the SCCA made sure the vettes would not have to deal with it. First, by not classing it right away. Then by putting it into a non-stock class. Will the SCCA do the same with the Z-06? Probably not, as long as Vettes are winning everyone is happy, it does not matter what the SCCA has to do to the rules to accomplish this.

My Dad owned a 2001 C-5 Vert. After watching me mop of his Corvette Club friends at an Autocross he decided he wanted a 1993+ RX-7. After he bought one the Vette sat int he garage and never moved. His reason? The vette was not as much fun to drive. He ended up selling the vette and keeping the RX-7.

I am sure a lot of you Porsche guys can understand there is more to a car than raw numbers. A car has character and it makes you feel like your part of it attached to the road sort of.

I have always said a Corvette will make a bad driver look good and a good driver look like a god.

Steve Wilkinson - You seem to work for GM or something and congrats on one amazing car. It has some awesome numbers and impressive stats. I do not mean to crap on your parade I just dislike this car greatly due to the way I have been jerked by the SCCA to make sure they win.

Funny the SCCA made sure the Lotus Elise is not classe din SS against the Vette. It seems that little 190 HP car might win and that is a no no in Super Stock only the Corvette can win.

Lets see where they put the Z-06. If it ends up in SS I can safely say something stinks in the SCCA.

Jim, you have a major hate on the Corvette, which you've voiced twice rather strongly in this thread, and it seems to have something to do with your being beat by them in autocrosses because, as you saw it, the rules were sandbasgged in their direction. Which has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the car is any good and everything to do with whether or not you resent the car.

No, I don't work for GM. I'm a car writer. I write for Car and Driver, Conde Nast Traveler, Popular Science, Golf Connoisseur, forbesautos.com, BestLife and other publications, and I drive every upscale car made. So I can tell you, not from simply "getting to toss one around at an autocross" now and then that the ZO6 is world class.

Stephan

Because each successive generation of a car usually is much better than the previous.

I always appreciate and read what Stephan writes. Thanks Stephen. I'm not into vette's either but from a gear head standpoint - I like what I see in the new Z06

Well, yes.....Yates called the new Chevette a *****box a few years back......I've adopted the term for multiple uses. :D

The GT3s aren't doing all that well at autocross against the 06. An occasional trophy when the competition is there. Last I looked, none had won a National Tour event in SS....or ASP or SM2....all the homes of the Z06. I'm sure someone will correct that if it's currently incorrect. Maybe they should be moved down to AS with the Honda S2000 & C-4s, eh?

I'm not a big Vette fan. They're too big for my taste.....but I recognize competence when I see it.

While Porsche moves backwards with the 996 serise of engines, Corvette moves forward with the ancient technology ( plus a few cubes).....development over design.

And you know, you have him the passenger seat of your p-car for a AX run and the advice he gives is spot on.....