DIY soft window targa conversion
 

I have been collecting parts for my soft window conversion for several years. I originally wanted a SWT but funds did not allow when I was shopping for my 911 so I thought I could do a conversion. The chassis through 73 should be set up for the SWT parts but no one knows until it all comes apart. Here are some somewhat step by step instructions to convert your early targa.

First you have to find the parts. There are two hoops, upper and lower. The lower hoop separates in two sections that are inserted into the top. The lower hoop has three blind nuts welded in place to fix the top to the tub. The upper hoop matches the contour of the targa bar. Each hoop has a hole in the end where they bolt to the tub.


Here is a picture from Mark Wilson of the upper hoop.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1123973314.jpg

Next there are a set of handles, a set of recepticles that attach to the handles and upper hoop, lots of hardware including a few rod ends for the lower hoop, the top itself and some tabs that weld to the rear deck.

Here are the handles.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1123973336.jpg

First you have to remove the stainless targa cover, rear glass and interior targa padding, rear deck, side panels and rear side tops. You will also have to remove the interior sound pad once the rear deck is out. This will be glued down.\

Once these parts are removed you need to look for a few mounting points. First are the holes to locate the tension handles. They will be in the targa bar just inboard of the targa top pin recepticles. There will be one on each side.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1124973383.jpg

Next you have to locate the lower mounting points for the two hoops. These are found at the base of the targa bar. I had to clearance a support rib for the hoop to fit. The lower hoop fits on the outside of the targa bar and the upper hoop goes to the inside.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1124973540.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1124973548.jpg

Next we have to mock up the handles. The mounting holes on a factory SWT have blind nuts in the holes. This car was not delivered with such so I had to install them myself. Out comes the rivet tool. I used #10 machine screws since they fit perfectly in the holes. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1124973673.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1124973683.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1124973693.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1124973708.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1124973724.jpg

Next is the installation of the tabs to hold the lower hoop. If you look at the chassis there will be three indentations in the rear pinch weld/seal seam. THere is one in the middle and one to each side near the "corner" bend. They are positioned on the flat that holds the rear deck hinge mount.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1124973824.jpg
The tabs are welded so that one side is just off center for the hole. I test fit these ahead of time with the bare hoop. ONce located weld them in place.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1124973918.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1124973926.jpg

Now you are ready for install. First check that the recepticles fit the upper hoop.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1124974037.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1124974047.jpg

If satisfactory, insert the two hoops into the top. They will support the top when centered.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1124974106.jpg
!!

Next, Fit top to the tub. It will be difficult to get the upper hoop to fit under the lip of the targa bar. Do not cut the top in this process. The two hoops sandwich the targa bar. NOTE: the handles and recepticles must be removed from the tub at this point. They will be installed later from below.

The factory used a large coarse thread wood screw into the outer hoop. I drilled and tapped for an M6 machine screw. This screw inserts from the inside, through the outer hoop, through the targa bar and threads into the lower hoop outside the targa bar.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1124974263.jpg

finally, push down on the rear of the lower hoop and attach the rod ends to the rear deck tabs.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1124974333.jpg
to tension the top, adjust the rod ends so the rear hoop sits down inside the seal channel. The hoop matches the contour. When satisfied, tighten the fixing bolts to the tabs.

Next install the handles. The handles will slip into their mounting holes under the hoop. Insert the recepticles onto the handle and offer them up to the tub. Secure the handles with the hardware defined above. NOTE: there are right and left handles and recepticles. Make sure to get the correct ones. The handles swing towards the center of the car.

Insert the recepticle mounting hardware. These are M6 hex cap screws that secure into blind nuts on the hoop. make sure the handles are open at this point or you will not be able to fit the bolts.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1124974627.jpg
Close the handles to tension top.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1124974656.jpg

Stand back and check your work.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1124974683.jpg

Remeber, never unzip the top unless the handles are detensioned.

Drop the tops and enjoy the ride!!

Excellent work!

Awesome job Jamie! Now that is a classic throwback. :cool:

Thanks, That was the easy part. Now it all has to come apart to be painted and powdercoated. I also have to clearance the interior padding for the handles, trim the stainless targa cover to clerance the lower hoop and a bunch of other things. Oh yeah, the car is also coming apart for paint... It never ends...

AWESOME, Jamie!

looks very nice!!! if i can't find a glass guy in the very near future i might be studying this thread alot more closely!!

This may be the first write up of this backdate ever! Def should be put into print. Great job, can't wait to see it when finished.:)

Jamie,

Very nice write up and cannot wait to see it all powdercoated and back on the car!

Been talking with a friend of ours and looks like I am going to buy his parts. He said that you had mentioned that one piece was missing? Any idea where to find one or have it made?

Thanks,

Joe A

Joe, I think that set of parts is missing one of the rod ends that attaches to the lower hoop. This is seen in the second picture. There are two and there should be three. A standard metric rod end should work in its place. At worst, you can buy unthreaded, undrilled and you die the correct threads and cut to length. Otherwise it is a very complete kit sans top material.

You will need to look at the targa bar to see if you can fit the handles. It would not be difficult to drill the required holes but if the required recessed, flat indentations are not present There would not be enough clearance. I suppose you could cut and weld a section from an early car that met its demise.

Jamie, that's outstanding. You may start a trend here!!!

Good work.. nice original version on an early car..
Wonder why someone couldnt build an aftermarket version for about 4-5 hundred...for an sc targa.... maybe just a snap on or rail version like a jeep soft top. Since it wouldnt look original on an SC anyway...

Jamie,

Thanks and my idea was to just retrofit an early Targa bar onto the car. Otherwise can drill and recess the two holes.

Thx,

Joe

Jamie, nice work man! I can't wait to see it up close! That car is going to look SO nice once you get that soft window done, and get the car painted!

Maybe someday if I get a Targa, I might have to do the same thing!

Jamie,

Do you have any pics of the car now that its painted?

joe A

I revived this thread to show the final product. Today I drove the var for the first time in 19 months. The last year and a half were filled with disassembly and media blasting. A nice clean bare metal surface was the result. Then there were weekends of sanding, cleaning, etch priming, high-build, more sanding, even more sanding and then progress came to a hault. My son, Matthew, arrived and it took me 5 months to get two weekends worth of work done and deliver the car to the painter.

After about 4 weeks I get a call that the car is done. I pick it and all the body panels up and then they proceed to sit in my garage. That was last May (2006)!

Many months go by and I finally convince my wife that I need more time to put the car together. I spend a few nights a week in the garage turning wrenches. Two weeks ago, I turned the key. The car started on the second attempt. I think it was happy to be alive after so many months of dormancy.

The past two weeks have been a flurry of activity to get ready for the EarlyS/RGruppe drive/rally here in Austin. I wanted to drive the targa and knew it would be a good motivator to finish it. Today It left the driveway on its own power. I drove it to work.

After a year and a half of driving the ST (think race suspension and full cage) All i could think of was how soft the car was and how much cowl shake and rear shake there was. Without the rear glass the car feels unsettled over stutter bumps. I know this will take some getting used to. That will happen by the time I get home tonight. time to go get some miles in at lunch. I have to burn off all that pickling oil inside the combustion chamber.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1177006821.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1177006828.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1177006835.jpg

Looks great Jamie! There are some stabilizer bars out there made specifically for targas that supposedly solve some of the cowl shake problems. Does it really make a difference in the cowl shake without the glass window? I didn't know that window was structural.

Congrats on getting your car back on the road!

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's very cool.

Jay,

I suspect that my "butt" feeling was magnified due to driving an ultra-stiff track car for the past 1.5 years. I am aware of the stiffeners. I should have welded some ribs across the inner longitudinals and hid them under the carpet. That would have worked well but I didn't go that far in finding the right parts to make it happen.

Thank's Mark... Now get that stepchild on the road!

That looks beautiful! :) Well done!

Jamie - I was wondering what came of this project. Looks like all the hard work paid off. This is one of those 'reference threads' thanks to your photos and documentation. I wish the board had an 'Index' to put these types of threads in to make it easier to reference than just the search engine.

Looks great! -- Curt

Fantastic work, Jamie! Looking forward to seeing the car in person tomorrow...

Mike

Hi, Does anyone know where to buy the hoops needed for the soft window installation? Or If someone could be kind enough post the measurement of the hoops and/or pictures it would be greatly apreatiated!:D

Thanks Jon S
NORWAY

Here's a link to a full set of soft window hardware for sale from a friend of mine.

http://www.early911sregistry.org/forum/showthread.php?t=23318

He's well known in the Early S Registry.

cheers,
Eric

does anyone know of a SC targa version available ~ made by anyone ??
I don't believe this early car set up would fit in a SC guys, right ??
Thanks,
Bob

I think it should fit.... the rear targa hard window never changed as I recall. You would have to do some attachment modifications, and also "clearance" your targa "headliner" for the handles, but that's pretty easy. You would have to have the window custom done to fit nicely, but everyone pretty much has to do that to avoid wrinkles in the rear targa window (mine have wrinkles as they were bought and not fit well enough by PO).

regards,
Eric

thanks Eric for the info here... is the above link correct for the top & bottom metal frame pcs & latches going for that amt of $$ ?? Can these parts be fabed up for way less ?? What did you do ??

Do You have any pics of this soft window on the car from the inside & pics of it OFF of the car to show the fab/attachment pts needed ??

Have you done this back date to an SC ??

Any info you can share on undertaking this as it sounds like you did this project ??

ANY COMMENTS ON IF THE REMOVAL OF THE REAR GLASS WINDOW MAKES THE BODY A VERY FLEXY~ FLOPPY~RATTLE BOX OF A CAR THEN ??

Thanks again Eric !!
Bob

My cars are original soft window's. However I was going to swap out a 73 with parts I had bought, but I'm going to use them now on a 68 912 targa that was converted from soft to hard window back in the day.

The price is probably commensurate with original "nice" parts not needing plating etc. I would think that you could fab the bows and the receivers that attach to the bows. You will need the original latchs if you want an original look OR you can use some type of screw and receiver to latch them up.

I know that Emory's (Parts Obsolete) have converted a couple of cars to soft window including one they bought from me a few years ago (69S).

I would think that JPNovak can probably give you the best ideas on the conversion.

Eric

Thanks Eric for your help here !!

Hey Jamie... I sent you a pm.
Thanks, Bob

I didn't realize this thread was revived...

The biggest hurdle to the conversion is finding the parts. The top itself is available from two or three suppliers. They fit well if setup properly. The hoops and handles are difficult to find. This is why the asking price is so high. Simple low supply. I know it took me 4 years to find all the parts.

The hoops could be reproduced if you had a set to copy. When I was looking there were no parts available to copy. the handles would be the hard part. The factory handles use a concentric, screw-type cam. The cam fits in a pinned receptacle on the upper hoop. The handles add slack in the top to unzip the top. Contrary to most people's understanding The upper hoop does not drop onto the rear seat area. The hoop just moves about 1/2" to allow the top to be unzipped.

An alternative to the handles could be some type of cam-lock system to tension the upper hoop. You would need to be creative on your own.

The SC has the same basic targa structure as an early car. As Eric noted there are some differences. The tabs that locate the lower bar will need to be fabricated. These are under the rear window channel/pinch seam. Second the lower corners of the targa bar will need to be clearenced for the front section of the lower hoop. In addition the lower mounting holes will need to be drilled for the front of the hoop.

The targa bar will also need to have the mounting holes for the handles. making the holes would be easy. Putting them in the right spot would be more difficult.

Jamie, Eric and all others... I can make repo parts if someone will lend me their hoops, handles and what ever other pcs are needed.
Anyone able to lend me their parts?? I can make parts for others if interested !!!!!!!!!
You can pm or email me direct @ bobf@design-associates.us
I am looking for a project now and this is perfect timing !! :-)
Bob

I have a pretty complete kit of parts for this mod, but they are stuck in my storage room right now. Bought them from Mark Wilson a while ago then ended up working overseas and not having any time to fuss with my car.

If some sort of guarantee could be arranged would not mind lending out parts (perhaps one or two pieces at a time to make sure I did not lose everything) to someone who could duplicate these.

Joe A

Awesome Joe !! I have someone who can vouch for me if needed... Chris Bennet... He'll vouch that I am crazy (in a good way) and won't loose or damage your parts.
pm sent!
Bob

sub'd

Hi Jamie, can you email me your contact info at bobf@design-associates.us so I can talk to you about this conversion. I pm'd you last week and no reply yet... out of town or busy now ??
Thanks,
Bob

I've decided to make the SWT hoops myself. My best guess on the sizes of the hoops are diameter 15mm for the hoop that goes along the body, and dia 20mm for the one under the targa bar. Can some one please confirm? Are both hoops round or, is the biggest one a square hollow section?:confused:

A tip for other ones whos looking for SWT parts. The chrome handles are identical to ones used on other convertibles as well. Mercedes Benz used the exact same handles on some of their cars...

Thanks

Jon Sigurdsen
911L Euro-version

Jamie,

Am in the final stages of getting my backdated 911 back on the road. Its at Patrick Motorsports right now getting all the bugs worked out.

Talked with Jim about it and he really liked the soft window conversion idea so once I get the car back on the road that is the next thing that I am working on.

There is evidently someone up in Ontario making this kit as well, so hopefully there are more bits available. When I purchased my parts from Mark Wilson he said that it was missing some things but the hoops, and lots of other small bits are there. Been over 5 years and its all now sitting in my storage room waiting...

Joe A

I've seen Jaime's car in person (lives in the neighborhood!) and it's really really nice. Seeing it, especially with the kid seat in it, I knew I had to have one, someday... well I finally acquired two handles on my quest to convert my '71 Targa. One handle I got on EBAY, and the other came from, I think, Austria. It exchanged a couple hand-offs before getting here to the states to me. I got pretty lucky finding it. Fellow Pelican on the other side of the ocean had it. Anyways, I was wondering, since there is interest for some of us to try to fabricate the pieces ourselves, if anyone has measured and drafted the pieces. I think the handle is really tricky, but the other pieces can be traced, measured, and drawn in CAD to get a profile close to what the factory used. If anyone wouldn't mind lending a few pieces I could draft them and have the drawings available to us tinkerers. I was thinking of making patterns for the tabs that were welded, patterns for the handle receivers that bolt to the top bow, and maybe the bow that wasnt a compound curve. Any help would be appreciated and shared!