Does Lighter Equal Deadlier?.

[hkspwrsche]

Interesting. Thought I'd see what everyone else thought.


DOES LIGHTER EQUAL DEADLIER?. Danny Hakim. The New York Times. August 28, 2005. Section 4, page 4. This Car Talk column focuses on the Bush Administration’s contention that safety concerns are part of the reason that the White House has been cautious in responding to calls for legislation that would enhance the fuel economy of the cars on the nation’s highways. During the energy crisis of the 1970s, auto makers were forced to produce more efficient vehicles, and gas mileage for the average new vehicle went from 13.1 miles per gallon for 1975 models to 22.1 miles per gallon for 1987 models. Environmentalists have criticized the Bush Administration’s new structure for corporate average fuel economy regulations (CAFE) as doing too little to raise vehicle mileage, but Jeffrey Runge, the administrator of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, said that raising CAFE beyond what is feasible would result in more traffic fatalities. In his earlier research, John Graham, a top official at the Office of Management and Budget who worked on the CAFE plan, found that lighter weight vehicles led to thousands of unnecessary traffic fatalities. Graham’s research was financed by the auto industry but its findings were backed by a 2001 report from the National Academy of Sciences.

[thabaer]

Interesting points in this recent thread:

yeah, the wife thinks my Porsche is Unsafe compared to her SUV

[techweenie]

By that logic, we'd all be driving semi tractors.

I personally think you're looking not at true safety concerns but at the political influence of the auto makers who realize bigger margins from larger SUVs and trucks.

[techweenie]

Your next Roadqueen Family Truckster may come from Peterbuilt (no, not PhotoShop -- this is real)

[2.7RACER]

A interesting question; does lighter equal deadlier? At what point is it no longer safe to remove weight?
Automakers have been able to develop frontal crush zones and cabin rigidity making our cars safer.
Race car engineers both NASCAR and open wheel designers have developed structures that are safe at very high G loads. Of course the materials used and the hand building have been very expensive.
We still face a percentage of the driving population that do not use seat belts. These folks are four to ten times more likely to be killed in accidents.
Perhaps as fuel prices continue to increase folks will naturally adjust their buying decisions to more fuel efficient cars.
Hybrids certainly offer some answers as long as the prices stay reasonable.
What I'm saying here is lighter is only part of the answer. Lighter can be done, but it must be balanced with the costs and other methods for gaining efficiency.

[RallyJon]

Blaming light weight cars for the damage inflicted by overweight SUV barges makes little sense.

How about we require everyone to wear a bulletproof vest to cut down on shooting deaths? Just as ridiculous as making everyone drive a big vehicle to protect themselves from other big vehicles.

The solution is to give substantial prison sentences to soccer moms driving SUVs that are involved in accidents where occupants of a smaller vehicle are harmed.

[David]

Basic physics. Not much we can do about it unless people are willing to pay more for a small car than for an SUV. During our collisions lesson our physics professor told us the story about how his wife and other faculty members were riding in a VW bus when they were hit by a 1963 Lincon Continental. Everyone in the bus died, including his wife. The Continental driver walked away. The professor said he went out and bought a Continental.

[SpeedracerIndy]

Originally posted by RallyJon
The solution is to give substantial prison sentences to soccer moms driving SUVs that are involved in accidents where occupants of a smaller vehicle are harmed.

Good idea. And the death penalty for those who were on their cell phone at the time.

[Zeke]

I'm not an ME or physicist by any means, but doesn't size and design play a roll in this? I understand weight differential, intertia and deceleration, but I think a little box is at a disadvantage from other reasons beyond weight alone. For example, raise an F1 car up to meet the other vehicle at mid body and analyze the results. That would be an example of better design. I can't make up an example of lighter, yet bigger with more than the average crumple zone and room for occupants to escape injury by intrusion, but you get the idea.

[Jeff Alton]

What if you hit a stainonary object? Light is probably safer in theory anyway, less energy to dissapate. All things being equal, a lighter car will brake better and be more agile allowing you the chance to perhaps avoid the odd collision. All just theory though. I remember seeing a story on the prevous generation F150 which is a pretty heavy vehicle. It was one of the worst vehicles to be inside of during an offset frontal collision. The cab caved in around the driver. So who knows what is best.....

Jeff

[echrisconnor]

I think Zeke has started to touch on this, but it's the differential that kills. The mix of light and heavy together is the fatal combination.

The problem is that as everyone wants the bigger vehicle so they can survive a crash, the industry keeps providing larger and larger options. This increases the delta further between the smallest and largest out there.

-c

[Quicksilver]

Structure is the key here. Mercedes built the SMART car, which no one wanted to buy here and it was crashed favorably with an E320. You can see it here... http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/mbccustom/smart/safety/event_clips.cfm

Yeah it wasn't perfect but the car is also smaller then it needs to be. Lightweight materials with a larger crush zone can make some amazing things happen.

A big step that needs to be taken is a serious reduction in the maximum bumper height especially in the rear of a vehicle. The police should also enforce the existing laws relating to height in regards to bumpers and headlights. (I doubt they will as it is so much easier and more fun to write speeding tickets even though speed is not even in the top ten causes for accidents...)

[Early_S_Man]

I don't recall any 'unsafe' clamoring about 550 Spyders or Speedsters, 904s, 911s, or 914s ... or the '66 Lotus Elans Mrs. Emma Peel drove in The Avengers, for that matter ... but that was before the irresponsible Nader mentality took over! It was also before GM and Ford were both making 3-ton behemoths with leather and gadgetry galore!

SUVs, or even larger RVs aren't very safe when they encounter Greyhound buses or 18-wheelers ... as I observed on Aug. 18 on US 87 in central Texas near Brady ... a driver's wheel to driver's wheel headon between an RV and FedEx 18-wheeler ... and the FedEx trailer was still in its' proper lane, nose-down, after the tractor separated and rolled. This occured in perfect 98°F weather at 5 PM!!! The RV driver was the cause, and the FedEx driver swerved violently enough to the right to detach the trailer, which skidded straight down the highway to a halt. RV rolled into the ditch along with the tractor. It was impossible to tell what brand of forward-control truck the RV was based on ... from the mangled mess that was left! After one of the CareFlight helicopters left the scene ... no more scrambling to save anyone else, and there were still five ambulances and two other CareFlight helicopters on the scene, if they had been needed. The numerous gouges and orange paint marks left by the DPS investigators are still on the highway ...

[Kurt B]

Wow...that's a very vivid descrption Warren...sounds just fightful. Terrible...yeah, it's the difference as everyone notes. And people do want to just survive, so they get the biggest they can.
Nothing you can do about it.

[artplumber]

Originally posted by echrisconnor
....but it's the differential that kills. The mix of light and heavy together is the fatal combination.
-c

This is the major contributor after a "floor" eliminating such things as motocycles. You need an adequate amount of weight to use in creating structure for crumple zones etc. However, light alone does not address energy to be dissipated near as much as speed (differential) as E= 1/2 x mass x velocity squared.

Other contributors are crumple zone design (or lack thereof in truck based SUV's), restraint (use), bumper design, and driver awareness (aids - eg/3rd brake light, ABS, stability control etc.).

The article may be a valid conclusion to a question asked in the wrong way with incomplete info. Just like the stat man says, statistics can be made to say anything you want them to.

[MotoSook]

The New York Times. August 28, 2005. Section 4, page 4. This Car Talk column focuses on the Bush Administration’s contention that safety concerns are part of the reason that the White House has been cautious in responding to calls for legislation that would enhance the fuel economy of the cars on the nation’s highways.

With the right motive and available resource, even a high school freshman can make the data speak the desired message.

It's irresponsible for a reporter or a researcher to provide only one view.

[Ben M]

I think driving skills has a lot to do with the problem. Like the one I saw yesterday, a lady drove through two lanes to make an exit, yapping on the phone the whole way. Coppers should be able to force these people to take driving lessons, or at least keep them off the phone. Just my $.02.

[techweenie]

Originally posted by Early_S_Man
I don't recall any 'unsafe' clamoring about 550 Spyders or Speedsters, 904s, 911s, or 914s ...

You may not recall it, but there was plenty of "you'll never get ME in one of those little things!" and no small amount of commentary about James Dean driving a 'deathtrap.' that was the era of 'longer, lower wider' in America.

[Early_S_Man]

techie ...

I certainly remember some of the comments by those that tended to favor Ford & Chevy convertibles over any kind of import, and that was irrational thinking, UAW union-bred hatred, etc, at its' best=worst! There weren't any magazine articles by respected authors foisting the Nader-view on the reading public that were actual automotive enthusiasts!

[Ryce Stallings]

If lighter were deadlier then most F1 drivers would be dead. Lighter and still safe means more money$$$$$$