Building a 1992 Carrera RS clone

[john_colasante]

Here is some info about what it would take to build a 1992 Carrera RS clone based on a regular 1990-1994 Carrera 2. There are many differences between the two, but this would get you started. Making a 100% accurate clone would cost a huge sum. This is scratching the surface but it does get you some of the main features. You are aiming for a stiff, lightweight and well-balanced car that would be alot of fun to drive on twistly roads and equally happy on a race track.



Engine: The Carrera RS engine was selected and blueprinted. A replica should have an aftermarket chip installed because the RS has a performance ECU to advance the ignition timing. Remove the dual belt drive for the fan/alternator and go with the single pulley setup. Remove the hydraulic engine mounts and go with the stiff rubber RS mounts.

Transmission/Clutch: Remove dual mass flywheel and install the RS lite flywheel and spring center disk. Changing the internals of the transmission and gearing is going to be very expensive so we won't consider that. Install a short shift kit. A limited slip differential is essential. Something with good lockup on deceleration. The real RS used 20/100 but this may be too aggressive.

Steering: Remove the power assist and install an RS America steering rack. You can leave the PS pump in or remove it and install a block off adapter.

Suspension: Go with the Porsche RS suspension with the original monoballs, using RS anti-roll bars which are adjustable. Lower and align to RS height.

Bodywork: The real RS has an aluminum hood. They are over $2000. To achive the same goal, use a fiberglass hood. Remove the hood shocks and get the RS prop rod. Change the rear bumper to that of the RS.

Interior: Remove the rear seats, rear belts, rear quarter and rear deck trim pads. Remove bosses for the interior panels and install an RS carpet set.



Remove airbags and put in a regular glove box. Remove the big underdash piece and install the simpler knee guards. Put in a Momo steering wheel. Install manual window regulators. Install RS door panels. Install racing bucket seats.

Glass: The RS has thin glass except the windshield. Not practical unless you want to go plexi for maybe the quarters and rear glass.

Chassis: If you feel up to it you can do the seam welding that the real RS has. This is mainly centered around the tunnel area. Also, roll the fender lips. It is not a good idea to scrape away all of the undercoating, but you might remove all of the interior sound deadening.

Brakes: Upgrade to turbo brakes (rotors and calipers). It will not be practical to duplicate the RS hydraulic assist.

Wheels: Use 8x17 and 9x17 Cup wheels.

Remember the goal is light weight. Shoot for a target of 2600 pounds.

[}{arlequin]

I'm getting warm just reading this wish list

[cegerer]

The Feb. 2004 Excellence has a detailed article on the somewhat similar US 1992 Carrera Cup car.

[Adam]

Ok, who do I have to kill to get a pair of those seats!?

Sounds like a great project, without ruining a rare car, but I'd check the legality of removing the airbags.

[Kraftwerk]

How does your project work out pricewise? Two for the price of one? Did you delete the sunroof? Anyway, I like your line of thought, the car looks magnificent.

[Two Oh]

Hi John Colasante,
I've inquired about importing a RS from England or Germany and in the process I found out about a fellow on the east coast [PCA member/racer] who does import them and makes them US legal. Not sure about the cost though.

I've also looked at numerous RS Americas:

10k miles $45k
28k miles $40k
44k miles $35k
56k miles $32k
77k miles $32k

All of these cars were perfect and no accidents or paint work.
They were red, white or silver. And each one had a/c.

I'd like a RS America but I only want it in Yellow or Riviera blue with no a/c and no sunroof.

It would be easy changing a 964 into a RS America but I don't want to do that. I prefer the real thing.

I want to buy a everyday [almost everyday] driver and I would be happy with a yellow RS America but lately I've been thinking "993" I know you have one and I'm curious to how much you like it and did you ever consider a RS America.

Regards, Mark

[RENNMAN]

Mark,

Don't want to discourage you but Porsche built only FOUR Yellow RS Americas. I have been after one in particular for YEARS and the seller won't sell. Three of them had a sunroof, All had AC. The one without the roof is still with the original owner with under 20 k miles. He has turned down 60 grand. Any of the yellow cars will be a big premium if one should sell. Keith of the RSA site owns one as well. Not selling. There were no Riveria Blue ones but ONE Maritime Blue car. There were also a couple of other special color cars built as well. As you have seen most were RED.

They are great cars for the money and I really have enjoyed RSA ownership. They are also one of the few Porsches you should always be able to get your money back on if you should decide to sell. Good luck.

Best,

Don

[Kurt B]

Anyone got a pic of what the back seat area would look like w/ the stuff removed? Is it all carpet, or just the seat pads or what?

[john_colasante]

Welcome Don to the thread. Don and I are friends here in NY and I can tell you that nobody knows RS Americas better than Don. He practically knows every nut and bolt part number on the car!

Don and I do seem to have a different opinion of the RS America. I rate the RS America very close on a scale near the Carrera 2, and Don rates it very close on a scale with the real Carrera RS. I do admit it is a "special" model, but the premium is for the rarity not for the technical aspects.

I'd be interested to hear how this guy is importing 964 RS for road use in the USA without fitting airbags. 993RS yes, because some of those had airbags from the factory.

As far as cost to convert into a decent RS clone, I have not worked out numbers. I am not actually doing this project, I posted it for reference info as there seemed interest from another thread.

[RENNMAN]

Greetings,

John You are half right! Having owned the Cup USA I am the first to admit the cars do have lots of little differences. The biggest being the suspension and the gearbox. The Euro RS is in my opinion a bit too extreme for extended road use. That is probably why most of them still have low miles. Anyway the RSA is a neat car in it's own right and ALOT different in feel and presence to a
C-2.

Best,

Don

[ValveFloat]

John, thanks for the info. This has been a dream project for me since I first saw a picture of a 964RS. Some day...
There is a guy locally that has a dark blue RSA, almost looks black, what color would that be?

[greglepore]

Only 4 yellow RS America's? I know of one that was rolled at a Riesentoter DE event when almost new and totalled, so I guess that leaves 3...

[Speedster94]

hallo
I have done most of this Mods to my Speedster ,Steering,Seats,Airbags,Doorpanels, Roll-up Windows,
no Top,CarbonHump,no Radio/Speakers ( if you want to hear Music ,go sit in your livingroom ) etc.
I had the Engine and gearbox to, but they had to make Room for a 993 3.8 and a G50/21 . For the Suspension i choosed M0 30 with Eibach springs, because i dont want to ruin the Body ( Top-less ) with a to stiff set-Up . I am down on the Weight to 1100 KG ,that is about 100 KG less than the RS .
Performance wise no RS or 993 can touch it , not in acceleration nor in Top speed or Torque . It is a lot of Fun to drive and i would do it again even so it is a real Speedster ( Matching Number Syndrom ) ,but it comes close to the real Speedster Idea from 56 .
That is possibly the Speedster Porsche didnt dare to build in 94 ,
harald

[jstgermaine]

Harald,

Everytime I see pictures of your car I get all giddy!! Post more!!

[Elombard]

Very Cool. I have been wanting to get a C2, put in racing buckets, do the suspension, get rid of the design 90s, the power steering and the rear seats. Oh I would put in a back half only roll bar. Great info.

[Joe Bob]

Originally posted by Adam Chaplin
Ok, who do I have to kill to get a pair of those seats!?

Sounds like a great project, without ruining a rare car, but I'd check the legality of removing the airbags.

Google search found....

The government mandated driver-side airbags in 1991; passenger-side airbags will become mandatory in 1998.

[cegerer]

Here's Rennman's RSA. I gotta admit, it's not too bad for a safety bumper car and fits in pretty good with the R Gruppe stuff ....

[RENNMAN]

Yeah thanks Curt, but notice how everyone including me is looking at Steve's 67 S! Thanks again.

Best,

Don

[KobaltBlau]

I am interested in creating a similar suspension for a US 964 to the euro RS and found a couple of relevant threads on rennlist:

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=197631&page=1&pp=15&highlight=RS+trailing+arm+bushings
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=150451&highlight=bushings

one of the sticking points is that the rear trailing arms must be replaced if one wants to ditch (at least most of) the toe control that the 964s have. the main arms are ~1600 per side, though they are available from any porsche dealer who will order from europe. the number of different suspension components is extensive:

Originally posted by CupCarBasically every single part of the suspension is changed in the Euro RS and USA Carrera Cup compared to a normal C2:

Front has Turbo uprights, 3.3 Turbo brakes, Bilstein struts that are much stiffer valved, monoball upper mounts, much stiffer springs, harder wishbone bushings, adjustable 24 mm stabilizer bar, manual steering.

Rear has unique trailing arm bushings, crossdrilled disc brakes, unique rear brake calipers, camber plates to allow more negative camber, Bilstein shocks that are much stiffer valved, much stiffer springs, monoball upper mount, adjustable 18 mm stabilizer bar.

The suspension is set 40 mm lower than Euro C2, 50 mm lower than USA C2 with more negative camber.

[twin plugged targa]

Maybe I missed it but I think you may have missed one of the 1st steps to an RS look a like- the wing mirrors!
Early pre '92 964's had the flagstaff mirrors same as the older Carreras!!!
Most people in Europe change those and the wheels as an immediate upgrade for better looks!.
The next is the vent in the front fender and then the front seats and rears.

The RS 964's have only really started to take off in price in the last 5 yrs I believe.
5 Yrs ago you could pick up a nice Left hand drive car for 20-25 GBP now they fetch 30-35GBP (Great Britain pounds).
I guess there are'nt many 911's going up as fast as that and most are actively used hard as track day cars.
In fact it's hard to find one which is not!
- Cars used for their intended purpose!!!
rgds Ben