auto-X incident - pics

[jwetering]

Just when you thought autcrossing was foolproof safe. A buddy with one of the nicest 1983 SC targas in the land hit a cone and it jammed between the right front wheel and the body of the car. He couldn't steer and didn't get on the brakes fast enough. Smacked a concrete barrier and ended up high centred on a telephone pole. It was BRUTAL to watch, looked real bad from a distance, up close it didn't look that bad. Report from the body shop says it actuallly is pretty bad. Insurance doesn't cover AX in our neck of the woods. Don't let's turn this into an insurance thread. Buddy's straight up and is taking the hit like a man.

Moral of the story is - both feet in.

[jwetering]

Few more pics. This really was a nice car, a late build SC. I noticed it had a 3.2 litre case while we were jacking it trying to get it on the ground.

[jwetering]

last pic for the sake of completeness

[efhughes3]

That truly sucks

[Nickatnyt]

friggin a. I will give those cones a lot of room during the Nov Auto X coming up with the PNW chapter of the PCA.

[Erik Mckenna]

Track's and AX's are still safer than driving to work everyday...
sorry to hear of the ding'er.

[bkreigsr]

learn how to say no to unsafe conditions, like nj barriers, sleeping flaggers, curbs, parked cars, and trees in proximity to the course.

[Jeroen]

that's a sad sight...

[Jims5543]

I am truly sorry for your friend and wonder if it was his fault?

How far from the course was the Cement wall and telephone pole?

Do you have any further out pictures of this incident? I am curious to see how far off course the power pole/wall were.

That is crazy.

[twin plugged targa]

I have only Auto -X'd about 7-8 times and have seen 3 crashes!.
One a guy borrowed a friends mid 90's Camero and somehow rammed a tree which was between the 2 car parks! it was about 20' from the cones in the track- no idea how it happened - but it just about totalled the car!.
2nd was in damp conditions and a RX7 twin turbo hit the gas out of a corner and kept on the gas and the tail swiped a post which again was fairly well clear of the track.
3rd was same day same track and a toyota/nissan something or other again t-boned a tree!!!!!
The last 2 were on my 1st auto X- needless to say I took it easy!.
My only damage to my car was later on when i caught a cone behind the front wheel and it pushed the fender trim in a 1/2" - purely asthetic .
I once spoke to a guy who rolled an MG- luckily I believe it had a roll bar.
Seems problems occur when people become over confident!.
It is dangerous enough being a cone marshall having to dance out of the way as a car is fishtailing towards you!!!!
rgds Ben.

[bkreigsr]

top shot shows the barrier about one targa's width away from the gate. plus, what is the I beam doing there? from the two helmets that are there, he was probably with an instructor to boot.
...got to learn to just say no.
anybody else remember the video of a corner worker being killed at a national Corvette ax when the car jumped a curb?

[Jims5543]

Originally posted by twin plugged targa
I have only Auto -X'd about 7-8 times and have seen 3 crashes!.
One a guy borrowed a friends mid 90's Camero and somehow rammed a tree which was between the 2 car parks! it was about 20' from the cones in the track- no idea how it happened - but it just about totalled the car!.
2nd was in damp conditions and a RX7 twin turbo hit the gas out of a corner and kept on the gas and the tail swiped a post which again was fairly well clear of the track.
3rd was same day same track and a toyota/nissan something or other again t-boned a tree!!!!!
The last 2 were on my 1st auto X- needless to say I took it easy!.
My only damage to my car was later on when i caught a cone behind the front wheel and it pushed the fender trim in a 1/2" - purely asthetic .
I once spoke to a guy who rolled an MG- luckily I believe it had a roll bar.
Seems problems occur when people become over confident!.
It is dangerous enough being a cone marshall having to dance out of the way as a car is fishtailing towards you!!!!
rgds Ben.

Your course designs sound like blatant violations to the guidlines and rules set by the SCCA. Parked cars 20' off course and trees 40' off course are not allowed.

I have to and look at my rule book but I am almost positive fixed obejects (trees, poles, walls) are to be a min of 75' from the course.

A safety stewart is supposed to walk to course and point out anything that looks like a violation and it is to be measured and/or fixed.

I did not want to assume the layout above, if indeed the wall and pole are 15-20 off course that is a very dangerouse layout and those in charge there could be in a lot of trouble with the SCCA.

[Jeff Alton]

This car was a concour car. A very nice example and the owner is a first rate guy, very unfortunate.

Jeff

[jyl]

From pics #1, 3, 6, 7 above, the curve looks like it was pretty close to the barrier - especially look at #6 - what's that, 20 feet from curve to barrier? Seems really unsafe, suppose you spin a car in that curve, wouldn't it be easy to clout the barrier with the tail?

I'm sorry about your buddy's car, it looks like it was a really nice Targa. Hope he can get it fixed without too much financial pain.

[scottb]

When I was considering tracking my car for fun, one great piece of advice I got was from someone here in the board. Basically, the advice was that I shouldn't take anything out on the track that I couldn't afford to leave on the track in pieces. I decided not to track my car.

As a Targa owner, stories like this one make me cringe. I hope the owner is OK, and that the car can be saved.

[Emission]

Originally posted by Jim Cesiro
"... those in charge there could be in a lot of trouble with the SCCA."

I think this accident was in Canada. I don't know if it was an SCCA event.

[vash]

damn that sucks! i hope those tiny cones on the first photo dont lay out the corner. that is way tooo close! i hope your friend saves that car. very clean. even the bilstein looks new.

anyone know if this ever happened at a bay area event? i have never heard of any.

still street driving has to be more risky.

[sammyg2]

That blows big time. I hope the car can be saved and doesn't cost too much.

I've watched three crashes at autocrosses. All three cound have and should have been prevented and IMO had nothing to do with the track layout.
Two of those times it was because the driver was using testosterone to drive the car instead of logic. By that I mean the driver lost control by cooking a turn, over-corrected, got back in the throttle, lost it the other direction, etc. and eventually hit something. By adding energy to the out of control car by trying to save it, the drivers extended the slide dramatically. They made a small issue into a big issue.
If I tried hard enough I could slide a car back and forth out of control for a 1/4 mile. No way can you set up a track to account for that.
I will say that I would be very, very careful on a track that had concrete barriers on the outer edge of a turn like they had there. I don't think that's too cool. It wouldn't take much of a bobble to hit that wall at all.

Both feet in is exactly the right thing to do. if those two guys had done the "both feet in" thing, neither would have hurt anything except maybe their pride.

The third incident was when a guy borrowed a "buddy's" car to try a lap. He wasn't signed up, he was just a spectator who wanted to see what it was like. Hey, it looked easy enough.
His "buddy's" helmet didn't fit so he set it in the passenger seat and decided he didn't need a helmet. The starter didn't say anything (WTF?) and gave him a green flag.
The guy made it down the straightaway OK, but as soon as he went into the slalom the helmet flew across the car, hit his arms and made him loose control of the car. It ended up ripping most of the front suspension off the car as it went over the curb. Paging Mr. Darwin, white coutesy phone please.

Last Sunday I witnessed a near miss. One guy took out a bunch of cones on the fastest part of the course. the cornerworker gave the next car through a yellow flag, and that car came to a complete stop on the track in the fastest section! We covered that in the driver's meeting, I guess he was day-dreaming.
I looked over and watched a GT-3 coming around the banked corner heading towards the stopped car prolly doing at least 70 mph. Luckily the GT-3 driver was looking ahead far enough and had incredible brakes, otherwise he would have taken out the stopped car and maybe even the corner worker. Scary doesn't cover it.

Those incidents probably had nothing in common with the one in this thread and i'm not trying to suggest they do at all, I'm just making a point which may prevent a crash in the future.
Use your head, keep it in perspective, and don't try to be superman and the likelyhood of an incident will go waaaay down.

There are cases when a track is laid out in an unsafe manner, but it seems that everyone seems gets around the track all day except one car.
That car's just unlucky I guess, but the more careful and under control we are the luckier we get.

There is no prize money or sponsorship on the line at a local AX, it's just for fun. No reason to try and be Michael Schumacher (sp?).
It's lots more fun when you car drive the car home afterwards instead of putting it on a flatbed.

[twin plugged targa]

Jim,
not sure if you were referring to me when you said 'your course' as I was only a newbie participant in Auto-x.
If by referring to my self as 'cone marshall' maybe I was miss speaking and should have clarified, I was only participating in returning cones to original position when moved.
I had/have no knowledge in SCCA rules for track setup and have never contributed to that end.

However I notived that you are located S Florida- which was where the events occurred whilst with Equipe Rapide!.
Ist event was nr Miami - if i remember correctly it was near a Horse race track (Hialeah Park?). The other one (Camaro) was at the Pompano Harness track (Poss PCA event).
This was about 3-4 yrs ago.
rgds Ben

[J P Stein]

It's 50 feet.
Unfortunately, this assumes the driver has his head screwed on straight, so more is better.
Often....I know as I have BTDT, when something unfamiliar happens, one goes into brainlock.....either passive (slack jaw) or agressive (tight jaws). Either one can get you in trouble.

Like anything else, you have to learn to spin properly.
Sure, both feet in, but not to the point of locking up the tires...you have to remain aware, keep looking ahead, and quickly make plan B.

Worse are those that think "when in doubt, grab a handfull".
At least they're thinking, flawed, but thinking and more likely to hurt someone else.

I have been guilty of trying to save a tank slapper.....and it can take a lot of room if you are not succesful. I did learn how( most of the time) but don't do it when it can cause a problem. I let her loop once rather than risk taking out the timing lights.

"Stuff" can go wrong at AX just as at the big track. You have to learn to deal with it. At least you're not running 100 mph within a foot of a wall......angels walk there.