964 or 993 - budget is $30K or less

[cantdrv55]

Helping a relative shop for a 911. He wants great stock shape, chilly AC and the most problem free design of the two. Don't know enough about either so we are trying to learn as much as possible. He wants to buy a vehicle, PPI'd and all, before Thanksgiving.

So what do you say? 964 or 993 and why? Thanks.

btw, he's in Sacramento so if you know anyone selling a 911 that fits the bill, please lemme know.

[cbeers]

Kind of like SC vs Carrera.

If I could, I'd get the 993 on looks alone. Plus, further refinement etc.

however, you can get a good deal on the 964s.

Same deal as any 911, PPI, ask about the problem areas etc.



I'm glad this is not for you Chris, I may have to come over there and take some of your toys away!




-Chris

[cantdrv55]

Originally posted by cbeers
I'm glad this is not for you Chris, I may have to come over there and take some of your toys away!




-Chris

I'm done car shopping for myself for a while (two or three years at least)

[JeremyD]

a nice low mileage 93 or 94 964 will take you a long way...

[Bill Verburg]

There are lots of good resons to choose a 993 over a 964

• looks
• chassis stiffness
• brakes
• 6 spd
• aero package
• suspension

That said the later '92 up 964s are also great cars at a very reasonable price.

I would avoid an OBD2 car though.

[cantdrv55]

Bill, what years for OBD2? Thanks.

[Warviking]

Can you get a 993 for $30K or less? All the ones I see are usually in high 30's. Maybe that's just this area though.

Originally posted by cantdrv55
Helping a relative shop for a 911. He wants great stock shape, chilly AC and the most problem free design of the two. Don't know enough about either so we are trying to learn as much as possible. He wants to buy a vehicle, PPI'd and all, before Thanksgiving.

So what do you say? 964 or 993 and why? Thanks.

btw, he's in Sacramento so if you know anyone selling a 911 that fits the bill, please lemme know.

[JeremyD]

That's why I said 964 - if my choice was a low mileage later 964 or a ragged ODBII 993 with potential CEL issues - Most of the decent 993' I have seen have been 30k or plus...

[kang]

Originally posted by cantdrv55
Bill, what years for OBD2? Thanks.

'95 is the only year that is OBD1.

[Bill Verburg]

Can you get a 993 for $30K or less? All the ones I see are usually in high 30's. Maybe that's just this area though.

Sure, I just bought a beautifully track prepped car, w/ ton of extras for that amount,

Local paper had 2 pristine '95's 1 silver and one white, w/ 40 and 20k miles respectively, owners were both asking less than $30k

US/Can. '95 are OBD1 '96 up are OBD2

ROW are all OBD1

[JeremyD]

you got a smoking deal on the 993 Bill!

[curlesw]

Originally posted by Bill Verburg
I would avoid an OBD2 car though.

What is an OBD? TIA.

Wayne C.
83 SC

[kach22i]

Originally posted by Warviking
Can you get a 993 for $30K or less? All the ones I see are usually in high 30's. Maybe that's just this area though.

The is a CO. cab (black & tan) 1995 for $28,000 in the Pelican for sale section right now.

[IceBlueSC]

Originally posted by curlesw
What is an OBD? TIA.

Wayne C.
83 SC

On Board Diagnostics
ie. a bunch of electronics which limits the "tuneablity" of the car, usually related to emissions criteria

[Bill Verburg]

What is an OBD? TIA.

OBD is the standard that the various 964 and 993 Motronic DMEs conform to. '84 -89 Carrera are pre OBD, '89 964 - '95 993 are OBD1.

all ROW are OBD1, as a result I don't think that any real effort was put into making these OBD2 cars totally foolproof.

The US EPA mandated an "enhancement " that had to be implemented on all US cars from '96 on. This enhancement has proven to be a potential nightmare for owners of these cars in areas where there is more than cursory emissions inspections. In NYS an OBD2 car is plugged into the state network where the entire contents of its memory are analyzed first for readiness codes then for fault codes. The owner is then responsible for fixing the real and sometimes imagined faults. There is a cash limit which I believe to be ~$250. But i'll be da**ed if I am going to pay that each year for non existant problems to pass the state inspection.

Even brand new cars w/ >3k miles are throwing the codes and the dealers can't always find a problem let alone a cure.

[KobaltBlau]

Originally posted by Bill Verburg

• chassis stiffness

what is different in this area, Bill? TIA.

[curlesw]

Thanks guys!

[Bill Verburg]

what is different in this area, Bill? TIA

The 993 chassis is 20% stiffer than 964 which was stiffer than 911.

996 is even stiffer, they got better at utilizing CAD

[kang]

Originally posted by Bill Verburg
OBD is the standard that the various 964 and 993 Motronic DMEs conform to. '84 -89 Carrera are pre OBD, '89 964 - '95 993 are OBD1.

all ROW are OBD1, as a result I don't think that any real effort was put into making these OBD2 cars totally foolproof.

The US EPA mandated an "enhancement " that had to be implemented on all US cars from '96 on. This enhancement has proven to be a potential nightmare for owners of these cars in areas where there is more than cursory emissions inspections. In NYS an OBD2 car is plugged into the state network where the entire contents of its memory are analyzed first for readiness codes then for fault codes. The owner is then responsible for fixing the real and sometimes imagined faults. There is a cash limit which I believe to be ~$250. But i'll be da**ed if I am going to pay that each year for non existant problems to pass the state inspection.

Even brand new cars w/ >3k miles are throwing the codes and the dealers can't always find a problem let alone a cure.

Yep, and then some…

OBD stands for On Board Diagnostics. Its basic job is to monitor emissions related equipment and report on errors. Some errors are simple: Loose gas cap. Some are more complex, e.g. SAI CEL’s on the OBD2 993’s. These are costly to fix and only effect emissions during the first 60 seconds or so of a cold start. Some “errors” don’t exist at all, like the “readiness codes.” Some tests only occur during precise driving conditions. If the test never occurs, the system indicates this by not setting the “readiness codes.” Sometimes you can get this to set by following a VERY precise driving sequence, which is almost impossible except on empty roads where you can cruise, speed up, stop, etc, by the stopwatch (e.g. cruise at 30MPH for 45 seconds, then criuse at 45MPH for 60 seconds, etc).

On the other hand, OBD can be helpful in some cases. You can get a CEL for a vacuum leak or a failed O2 sensor, etc. Getting the code read, which points right to the faulty component, can make diagnosing things like drivability problems much easier (on occasion). You could have a small vacuum leak or faulty O2 sensor, which would hurt performance, mileage and emissions, and not even know it. OBD would alert you to the fault before you were even aware of it.

[CarreraS2]

$30K? Good grief, that's not even a close call, 993 for sure.

When I was looking for a 993 last year, I saw plenty of good ones for that price.

(If your ceiling was $25K, it might be a different story).