3.2L - What parts need to turbocharge?

[RarlyL8]

A buddy of mine has a modded 3.4L engine in his '84 that currently puts out 292HP. The engine is on the edge for a street car and he wants at least 100 more HP.
There are a gazillion posts here on turbo kits and the like for the Carrera engine. I have not found a thread that explicitly lines out every part you need to do this. The Protomotive website lists major parts, I want to know about the MINOR parts, the stuff that cost you the time to do things right.
(If there is such a thread PLEASE direct me to it - I will print this out and hand it to him)

The goal is 400HP with room to grow to 500HP

The engine will require new P&Cs due to very high compression.
What is an ideal compression for this goal?
What is the ideal turbo for this goal/application (7000rpm readline)?
What is done with the DME to enrich during boost?
Where is the best place to get oil for the turbo?
Where is the best location for the turbo?
Where is the best place to drain the turbo?
What are the best headers/heat exchangers?
(currently SSIs, have 3.6 exchangers as well)
What is the best muffler?

Personally, I don't think this is a good idea. The previous owner spent stupid money to get nearly 300HP out of a Carrera. It is wicked fast now with a sound to match. It's a crime to change this motor.
But it ain't my car. He wants more power and this is the only way you're gonna get it at that level.

Here it is (the white one) -

[charlesbahn]

You'll get lots of opinions on this. To do it right and not just cobble something together, it will cost a lot to get another 100 HP. Depending on the compression ratio the engne has now, and if he/she can stop at 400 HP, IMO you could get the protomotive stage 1 with intercooler. It has everything you need (headers, turbo, plumbing, chip, fuel regulator, modified AFM, muffler, clamps, hoses, etc.). If you get the full stage 1 (not the cheaper on the side) you don't need to make any body/frame mods, you don't need to get into the engine, it is bolt on, and can be easily removed and the car returned to stock. The intercooler does require a turbo wing, and the opening into the turbo wing has to be enlarged to accept the large intercooler. BUT it will top out at about 400 HP with no easy option to go higher. I've run this for 2 years and 10K miles and it is great- wicked fast and easy to drive on the street. The only extra I had to buy was the backdated oil line. I also wanted my AC to work and had to add a Performance Aire underbelly condenser. It is expensive even if you install it yourself. If you want a 400 HP Porsche it is a really great system and worth the price since it is so well engineered and built- all stainless, etc. And most of all- reliable. For me, it really was plug and play. If you want this much HP and your engine and tranny are strong it is worth going with the price and doing it right- IMO. Only other downside I can think of is that the heat system is changed to use the on engine oil cooler. It works well for me in Maryland but in colder climes it probably would not be adequate for comfortable heat. Also smogging may be a consideration where the car is.

If you need an option for going up to 500 HP, as you know, the ball game changes considerably. You need to do major engine mods to lower compression. Unless you are really a good mechanic, it moves out of the DIY range and expenses go up quickly. Protomotive does offer options for this, but not to the DIYer. Best to give Father Juan a ring and get his opinions.

I will say that, although I am not a race car driver, 400 HP in one of these cars is MORE than enough. Protomotive will have you sign liability releases because of the incredibly increased performance. This gives me a good excuse not to let inexperienced drivers in the left seat.

(I have no financial interest in Protomotive, but I love my car and I am an enthusiastic supporter.)

Edit- the tranny is also an important consideration. I don't know the details, but according to Todd at Protomotive, the early 915's would not be able to take 400 + HP, although the later ones are OK.

[89911]

He already knows what engine rebuilds cost, so I guess this is pointless....but.....try to talk him into buying a turbo.

[asphaltgambler]

This is a very simple question to answer. You need two things.................

A) Open check book with deep funds

B) Patience.....and oh, see answer "A"

[YermanCars]

I had a kit for $6000 but it is too late now

Rarley, there was some one selling a stage 3 proto motor for a great price. he should consider to buy that.

[masraum]

You should PM "wydryd". He's down under and turbo'd his '89 turbo look. He can probably tell you what you need. I believe he originally went with the protomotive kit which has "some assembly required" if you know what I mean.

[RarlyL8]

The motor will have to come apart. C/R is in the upper 10s right now.
Owner is very good mechanically and will do all the work himself.
He does not want a kit because of the P-tax built in. The theory is you can buy the components for 1/2 the price of a kit. Also, a kit may not get him the 400HP minimum he desires.
Car has a turbo tail on it now that will fit a bay cooler.
I have warned him about the 915, he does not care. "If I blow it up it's time for an upgrade".
A used Stage II or III kit would be the best thing to do in my opinion. I'll look for a used one in the classifieds. (I still wish he would sell this engine and start over).

I would like to hear from folks who have done the stage II or III.
What compression ratio is best for 400+HP? 8.0:1, 8.5:1?
How is on-boost fueling best taken care of?

[drauz]

why not sell the 3.4 & buy a turbo motor that is more suited to be rebuilt / tuned to reach 400? or, why not supercharge to reach that magic 400 # on the dyno?

[charlesbahn]

I think pelican AUTOXER in NJ comes across protomotive engines from time to time.
Protomotive Stage 3 3.3 litre Motronic 600 HP engine

Edit: but I see you already know this.

[WydRyd]

RarlyL8, The Protomotive system delivers 400HP at the stock C/R of 9.5:1 @ 0.7bar Intercooled.

To go to Stage 2, 0.5mm C2Turbo head gaskets are used to drop the C/R to ~8.8:1, for 0.85bar/485HP capability.

For Stage 3, 930 P&C's are used with the C2 Turbo head gaskets and 0.5mm base cylinder shims. This setup runs 1.25bar and delivers approx 550HP (flywheel). This is the setup I'm running right now, with GT2-EVO CAMs.

If he's running 98mm P&C's, he should just slip in a nice set of 7.5:1 JE pistons and be done with it. At his current high 10's:1 C/R, he won't be able to lower C/R low enough with the C2T head gaskets, so he'd need to go with aftermarket pistons.

He can use any aftermarket style 930 headers, with a 1" spacer between turbo & collector to riase it a tad. Then he can drain the oil back into the lowest point in the CAM chain housing/cover.

Oil feed would be sourced from the oil pressure switch at the top of the motor.

He'd need to run a full length intercooler, plumbed into the AFM. Fuel & ignition would be left to a custom Protomotive CHIP & their fuel pressure regulator (they work as a pair).

I use a K27HFS and it works great up to this power level.

Hope this helps.

[RarlyL8]

Drauz - selling the current motor makes the mose sense (to me). This was tried a few months back, unfortunately a few folks did not believe the HP figures. He didn't appreciate being called a liar and pulled the motor from the market.

Charles - he and I both called on the engine in NJ. VERY FISHY. Everyone on that thread bailed. It didn't even sell on e-bay. Prototech and Protomotive never heard of the engine.

Merv - that's the info I needed. He plans on new P&Cs, just didn't know what compression ratio to shoot for. I'll have him look into Protomotive and see if they will sell him the components he needs.
It looks to me like he needs to do a stage III buildup and lock it down at 1.0 bar. That should give the reliability and power he is looking for.

[Lukesportsman]

I think Todd still has the 660hp Proto III for sale at around $12k. He didn't get any bids on Ebay so he must be getting the itch to sell it. He mentioned to me that he'd be willing to separate it into an engine and kit for sale. He might still be and I don't recall what he wanted for each 1/2. Just an idea and might work out to save hassle and I assume $$ after he sold off the 300hp NA engine. He might only be out a few grand after the trade, but the tranny will fry.

No connection either to Proto and as I've answered you in another thread I'm probably not going the Proto route at this time.

[WydRyd]

RarlyL8, if he's looking at locking it down to 1 bar, then perhaps 8.0:1 would be a better C/R to aim for, for better pre-boost drivability.

I believe RUF used 7.5:1 and locked down their CTR's to 1.1bar.

Protomotive tune their systems for 1.25bar on pump grade fuel

[dickster]

My first impression was that he should sell the current motor (as others said) but as he doesn't want to.......

I understand the theory, but most people seem to agree that once you have sourced everything you need and fabbed anything else it really isnt worth the hassle. rather go and buy a tried and tested system from proto or similar.

i looked into it a while ago but decided to bail - i'll buy one from proto if i ever have the cash.

still, if he is hell bent on going on his own buy the book "maximum boost" by corky bell - its invaluable.

good luck

[JeremyD]

With the 3.4 I would think it would be easy for him to go with a set of 8.0 to 1 JE pistons. I'd also recommend Supertech head studs or 993 for sure then you may not need to flame ring. Big friggin turbo and 400-500 should be doable. That was my goal anyway when I rebuilt my 3.4. NA now - turbo it in the futue.

[JeremyD]

Oh - and I would have him contact Souk - he's working on a 3.4 kit that might be right up his alley.

[MotoSook]

500HP from a 3.2 to 3.4 liter engine is not as difficult as some folks think. And those that know me will agree that it doesn't have to be as expensive as some folks thing it is.

[JeremyD]

guess your ears were burning?

[MotoSook]

LOL> They're glowing red, JD