car scam???

[JPtahoe]

Help. I am looking at a car in the UK, that carfax confirms originated in the US. The car is priced extremely low. The seller suggested using escrow.com to insure that I am satisfied with the car as he represented it. Given that escrow.com would hold all money and I have right of refusal, how can this be a scam? The deal seems too good to be true, but I have been looking for a long time for my first 911. Could I have gotten lucky?
How does this work?

Thanks- JP

[EdT82SC]

If it's too good to be true it probably is. Give us some details about the car, where you found it listed, etc. There are Pelicans in the UK. Maybe one of them can go take a look at it for you. Sometimes just asking the seller if you can send someone to take a look will expose a scam because he'll start making excuses.

[JPtahoe]

This is a 1991 C4 with 88K miles. Asking price is $7,800. Seller says it is in excellent condition and needs money for a new small business. He said he would send his address if I requested to have someone look at it. PCNA confirmed the color of the paint & interior. I am waiting to hear from the seller regarding address and plate number so I can do a UK version of carfax. I called escrow.com and they said if the car is below blue book it is a scam. ??? I found the car on cars.com
thanks- JP

[Andras Nagy]

Caveat Emptor!!!!!

This was never truer than when one tries to buy something across "the Pond". Britain might be okay (as opposed to Nigeria), but Ed is right, don't send any money unless one of us PelicanHeads in the UK can inspect and verify.

[wholberg]

I believe that an escrow service would work if you were sure that you found the car you want. Few questions:

Why the UK? There are more Porsches in the US.

Why is the price so low? I get Total 911 magazine and the prices for Porsches in the UK are much higher across the board than in the US. It makes me suspicious.

Are you going to go look at the car? The cost of a plane ticket pales in comparison to the investment and the cost of major repairs.

Finally, get a PPI (pre-purchase inspection). Ask for a reference for a good mechanic in the area on the Pelican board. Someone on the board may have a recommendation or be able to look at the car for you. Find out from the owner who has been servicing the car and call his/her mechanic and ask a lot of questions.

Is the buyer willing to use escrow.com? If so, then is seem likely that the deal is legit. Another alternative is have the shop that does the PPI also arrange the shipping (for a fee) if they are willing to do so. This puts it in the hands of a neutral (you hope) third party.

Good luck.

[jevvy]

I deffo dont want the car (just in case you are worried about me snapping up a good deal) so feel free to pass on the details & I will check it out here in the UK for you.

Does sound a little too good to be true though.

[jose luis]

Wholber is right on the Money : UK Porsche prices are expensive than in the US and basically California and Arizona will be my best bet to find a good early 911. I personally bought my Car from California and exported it to Mexico back in 2002.

Good Luck.

JL Garcia
912, 1968
Toluca , Mexico.

[9dreizig]

SCAM SCAM SCAM,, didn't someone run the VIN on one of these a few months ago??? Get the VIN and Im' sure theres a Pelican who will run it..

[Danskman]

Maybe 7,800 pounds, not dollars? 7,800 = ~$13,400USD

[TerryH]

Originally posted by JPtahoe
Help. I am looking at a car in the UK, that carfax confirms originated in the US. The car is priced extremely low. The seller suggested using escrow.com to insure that I am satisfied with the car as he represented it. Given that escrow.com would hold all money and I have right of refusal, how can this be a scam? The deal seems too good to be true, but I have been looking for a long time for my first 911. Could I have gotten lucky?
How does this work?

Thanks- JP

The only one that's going to get lucky here is the guy you hand your money.

Nothing here makes sense. If this car exists at all, one possible scenerio is this thing is leaking so much oil that nothing short of a $10K reseal/rebuild will make it drivable. The early 964's had major seal issues.

[gaijindabe]

Originally posted by Andras Nagy
Caveat Emptor!!!!!

This was never truer than when one tries to buy something across "the Pond". Britain might be okay (as opposed to Nigeria), but Ed is right, don't send any money unless one of us PelicanHeads in the UK can inspect and verify.

Plenty of Nigerians in the U.K. And plenty of native born theives as well. If they are willing to let it go for such a deal, why bother selling it to someone overseas? Why not just not someone local with cash in hand?

[Andras Nagy]

I do apologize to all Nigerians who are not scam artists - my reference was to the e.mail scams that seem to be originating in Nigeria, in which a "government official claims that there is lots of money in a bank account, but this official needs our help to access it, so please let them put the money into our account in the States, and thus send him our account information, including password, etc etc etc.". The guess what happens to your bank account?

Or the scam that says "I have a pre-paid Cashier's Check ready to pay for your car, but it is for more than the amount you wanted, so please send me the difference, and I will place the Cashier's Check into your account." Guess what happens to his "Cashier's Check" after you send him the difference?

Surely you have heard of these?

Why these scams seem to originate out of Nigeria, I'm not sure.

Finally, some of my best friends at college, and members of my eating club, were Nigerians, so I am not prejudiced against Nigerians. Just scam artists who happen to be Nigerian.

[trader220]

Ive used escrow.com they're legit, but make sure you type in the address dont click on a link that the seller gives you. You can also call escrow.com and set it up. Escrow.com does not do business in Arizona too, just in case you're there.

[Pele911]

Get Peter Morgan (911 and Porsche World writer and offers PPI service) to do a PPI. He apparently offers a full well documented service.
www.petermorgan.org.uk

[red83911]

I would not waste any time or cost in arranging an inspection of this car $7,800 or even £7,800 is a totally unreal price for a 964 in the UK even if the steering wheel was on the LHS of the car.

[Porsche]

Maybe a UK member can check it our for you. There's something not right.

[ruf-porsche]

Even Forrest would know to run away from a deal like this and we all know how mentally challenge he was.

[pwd72s]

Send the money! Proving once more that P.T. Barnum
was right. (Oh gawd...just dawned on me. I'm an old fart, you must be terribly young to even be interested in this.) P.T. Barnum owned a circus, Barnum & Bailey, billed as "The Greatest Show on Earth". And really, in it's time, it was. His most famous quote? "There's a sucker born every minute." Suggest to this seller that you use an escrow company licensed within the state you live in. He'll quit communicating...guaranteed!

[ruf-porsche]

Originally posted by pwd72s
"There's a sucker born every minute."

Was that a quote by W.C. Fields?

[gr8fl4porsche]

Actually it was a banker named David Hannum.

See the interesting story below.

P. T. Barnum Never Did Say
"There's a Sucker Born Every Minute"
By R. J. Brown
Editor-in-Chief

P. T. Barnum is most often associated with the circus sideshow and the display of freaks. While this is true, he is also the founding force behind one of America's most famous circuses: Barnum & Bailey Circus. Barnum is also affiliated with the famous quote "There's a sucker born every minute." History, unfortunately, has misdirected this quotation. Barnum never did say it. Actually, it was said by his competitor. Here's the incredible story.

From 1866 until 1868 Mr. George Hull, of Binghamton, New York studied archeology and paleontology. Over this period of time Hull contemplated how to pull off a hoax. It seems that many an evangelist at the time had been preaching that there were giants in the earth. In June of 1868 Hull traveled back to Fort Dodge, Iowa where there was a gypsum quarry he had recalled seeing two years earlier. Even then, he had noticed that the dark blue streaks running through the soft lime rock resembled human veins. Realizing this its appearance was tailor-made for his hoax and it was easy to carve, Hull hired a group of quarry workers to cut off a slab measuring twelve feet long, four feet wide and two feet thick.

In November, Hull had his gypsum wrapped in canvas and hoisted onto a wagon. Since the nearest railroad was forty miles away, it proved to be a long, difficult job. He then had the slab of gypsum shipped by rail to Chicago where he had hired a stone cutter named Edward Burghardt to carve a giant. Burghardt and his two assistants, were sworn to secrecy and agreed to work on the piece in a secluded barn during their off hours and Sundays. The instructions were to carve the giant as if it had died in great pain, and the final result was an eerie figure, slightly twisted in apparent agony, with his right hand clutching his stomach. All of the details were there; toenails, fingernails, nostrils, sex organs and so forth. Even a needlepoint mallet was used to add authentic-looking skin pores. When the carving was done, sulfuric acid and ink were used to make the figure look aged.

The giant finished, Hull then had the figure shipped by rail to the farm of William Newell, his cousin, located near the town of Cardiff, New York. In the dead of night, Hull, Newell and his oldest son buried the giant between the barn and house. They were instructed to say nothing about it and that Hull would let them know in about a year of what the next stage was.

Luckily, about six months later, on another farm near the Newell's, some million year-old fossil bones were dug up. Newspapers around the country reported the finding. Hull was filled with glee in reading the accounts.

True to his word, one year after burying the giant, Hull sent word to his cousin on October 15, 1869, to start the next stage of the hoax. Newell hired two laborers to dig a new well near his home. Newell directed them to the exact spot he wanted the well dug and went back into the house to wait -- anxiously. Sure enough, well into the day, the two laborers rushed up to the house to announce their discovery: a giant turned to stone! The laborers and both Newells carefully excavated the area surrounding the giant.

News of this amazing discovery spread throughout the valley and soon wagon loads of neighbors streamed into Newell's farm to see the giant. By mid-afternoon, Newell erected a tent around the "grave" and started charging 25 cent admission. Two days later, the Syracuse Journal (New York) printed an article about the discovery. Being greedy, Newell raised the price to 50 cents, and a stage coach company made four round trips a day from Syracuse to the Newell farm. Thousands came every day. Among the visitors were clergymen, college professors and distinguished scientists. Before long, the expert's opinions split into two theories; one side claimed it was a true fossilized human giant and the other side pronounced it an authentic ancient statue. No one asserted that it was a fake!

About ten days after the discovery, and about the time the Cardiff Giant, as the papers had named it, started receiving national attention, Hull sold two-thirds interest in the giant for $30,000 to a five-man syndicate in Syracuse, the head of which was a banker named David Hannum. The syndicate moved the giant to an exhibition hall in Syracuse and raised the admission price to a dollar a head. Unknown to them, P. T. Barnum sent an agent to see the giant and make an assessment. The particular Sunday the representative saw the giant, the crowds were abnormally large -- about 3,000 people. The agent wired the news back to Barnum and Barnum instructed him to make an offer of $50,000 to buy it. Hannum turned his offer down.

The Cardiff Giant was the most talked about exhibit in the nation. Barnum wanted the giant to display himself while the attraction was still a hot topic of the day. Rather than upping his offer, Barnum hired a crew of workers to carve a giant of his own. Within a short time, Barnum unveiled HIS giant and proclaimed that Hannum had sold Barnum the original giant and that Hannum was now displaying a fake! Thousands of people flocked to see Barnum's giant. Many newspapers carried the version that Barnum had given them; that is, Hannum's giant was a fake and Barnum's was authentic. It is at this point that Hannum -- NOT BARNUM -- was quoted as saying "There's a sucker born every minute." Hannum, still under the impression that HIS giant was authentic, was referring to the thousands of "fools" that paid money to see Barnum's fake and not his authentic one.

Hannum brought a lawsuit against Barnum for calling his giant a fake. When it came to trial, Hull stepped forward and confessed that the Cardiff Giant was a hoax and the entire story. The judge ruled that Barnum could not be sued for calling Hannum's giant a fake since it was a fake after all. Thereafter, Hannum's name was lost to history while Barnum was left with the misplaced stigma of being the one to say "There's a sucker born every minute."