CIS Smog again! Please forgive me.

mikester · 11-29-2005, 05:31 PM

I was really wary of starting ANOTHER CIS smog thread but...I have questions soooooo here goes...

Okay fellas - after spending most of the day reading through the other smog related threads, including the "Ultimate California Smog thread." I've come to the conclusion that I simply don't know where to start...

I don't have an gas analyzer and I'm not sure I would know what to do with it if I did - other than put it my car's tail pipe.

I have an '80SC that I know has mixture problems. I've had it through smog once before and the mechanic I have taken it to in the past got it through after many tries via trial and error.

I don't want to go through that much trial and error again, I want to fix it. This process isn't going away and I don't really want it to be the struggle that it has been to continue.

Here are my numbers;

With the high HC and high NO and very low CO I'm leaning towards the notion that my mixture is too lean.

With all I've read - I honestly haven't seen much mentioned about the Hydrocarbons so I'm a bit at a loss.

Failing all else - I am not averse to taking it to a shop to get fixed I just want to find a shop that can find the problem by investigation rather than parts changing at my expense. It seems either way I end up paying for the hours...

Steve W · Steve W's Garage

With a low CO, and high NO, it means you are running too lean. Richen it up a bit, and make sure you lambda system is working.

EdT82SC · 11-29-2005, 08:30 PM

Mike, why not take it to TRE? I would think they could fix it for you.

mikester · 11-29-2005, 09:24 PM

TRE has been suggested before - I'll see if I can call them tomorrow. I'm a little concerned about how much the repairs might cost from them but that's because I typically do repairs myself. On this car though with a new house and a nearly one year old kid, school, wife, hobbies, work - all that life - I've just been happy to take it to a mechanic.

So, yeah - I'll call them tomorrow - I haven't used them before because living in the South Bay and trying to get to North Hollywood can be an all day affair. I wanted something closer.

REgarding the Lambda system - how do I ensure it is working?

SC Schrauber · 11-30-2005, 12:49 AM

When I richened up- victorious

CA Smog failed - advise please

mikester · 11-30-2005, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SC Schrauber
When I richened up- victorious

CA Smog failed - advise please

Frank, yours was one of the first threads I found in my search. I do believe things will get better once I richen it up onthe CO/NO front but I'm still concerned about the HC - that's where I failed really. If I richen it up won't the HC count go up?

sammyg2 · 11-30-2005, 06:18 AM

Make darede sure your O2 sensor is hooked up and working, it is prolly old and tired.
Also inspect the wire connection to make sure it is in good shape and making good contact.
The system should adjust itself if it is warm enough.
Sometimes the O2 sensor doesn't get warm enough at idle to properly control the mixture, but at 15 and 25 mph it has no excuse. It is not doing it's job.

I installed a heated O2 sensor on my 80 SC and it works like a charm.

mikester · 11-30-2005, 07:46 AM

Sammy, were did you get your o2 sensor from. I can't find a listing for the heated o2 on the site here...

sammyg2 · 11-30-2005, 08:20 AM

I got mine on e-bay, it is a universal type O2 sensor, I think I paid around $30 for it. It looks very similar to the one available here for a 3.2 carrera motor part number 928-606-124-00-M14. That one on pelican may be a direct bolt-in and hook-up deal with no modifications necessary assuming your wiring harness has the same spare plug that mine does.
All I had to do was to change one end connection.
I found a powered plug in the engine compartment that fit perfectly on the other connector. I have no idea what that connector in my engine compartment was supposed to be for, but it works great on the O2 sensor so that is what I'm using it for.

One problem i had was the connector in the engine compartment that the O2 sensor plugs into was shot. That's the one with the insulator on it. Mine crumbled and fell apart which is very common on these cars. It is part of the wiring harness and isn't easily replaceable with the stock type of connector. I replaced it with a standard weather-tite connector and it made a big difference in the way the car ran.

mikester · 11-30-2005, 08:28 AM

Sammy, that's great info. I appreciate it a bunch and it's something I'm going to look at tonight.

I recently had the Clutch replaced and I know right after that when the mechanic put the engine back in it was running like crap and he couldn't figure out why. I'm wondering if the o2 Sensor connection has failed - previously it was marked by the same mechanic as good. I'm not sure how confident I am in that reading however.

Now, I know I've read on a lot of posts that the O2 sensor on these cars is almost ornamental but I've also read things like what you say and what the K-jet manual says - it's damned important to proper running.

not sure what to make of it but considering the seal you made me for my 914 way back was awesome I feel pretty good about what you've got to say (and again, I read your previous threads on the subject).

Lorenfb · 11-30-2005, 09:13 AM

"were did you get your o2 sensor from. I can't find a listing for the heated o2 on the site here..."

Always call Pelican when you don't find it listed. Many forget that they still
have a phone to use. Remember, Pelican has many many sources for
parts and most parts may not be listed.

sammyg2 · 11-30-2005, 09:58 AM

As Loren pointed out and I mentioned in my post, Pelican does have both the heated and non-heated O2 sensors.
The 1980 SC stock sensor is not heated.
The 1884 sensor is heated according to the picture and is substantially more $$$$. I believe it is around $180 or so.

The heated sensor will require a 12v power source which the SC did not have hooked up in stock configuration. My harness has the connection, maybe they were anticipating the change?

The only real advantage to the heated version I know of is that it will come up to temperature and start reading correctly much quicker, and will probably meter more accurately at idle. Uner throttle and load both should be capable of metering correctly assuming they are not old and contaminated. Even on old worn out O2 sensor can usually read, but it will react slowly and will not be as accurate.

COVER MY BUTT DISCLAIMER:
Modifying emmision control systems may violate state or federal laws and I am not suggesting anyone do that

mikester · 11-30-2005, 10:24 AM

In all fairness - of course I want to buy it from Pelican. I just was doing my due diligent research.

And Sammy, I appreciate your advice but I also will not hold you responsible (or anyone else) for that matter for over the wire diagnoses. They are circumstantial and not factual so...how could I possibly. The disclaimer for me is implied and makes any online recommendation a "might" work rather than anything absolute.

Even if it sounds good.

JK-81SC · 11-30-2005, 12:17 PM

Sammy,

How hard is the rewiring of the O2 connector, any tricks to it? I'm putting my engine back into the car, and my O2 sensor connector is completely shot.

Did you get the new connector at an auto parts store?

Thanks...

sammyg2 · 11-30-2005, 12:39 PM

I simply stripped the wire on the O2 sensor at the very end and crimped on a connector I got at the FLAPS. I did the same with the wire on the engine wiring harness and connected them together.
It worked just fine and made a big difference, partly because the O2 sensor was weak and partly because the connector was going south.
I got the idea to change the connector from an article written by Lee Rice in Pandemonium, the OCR PCA monthy newsletter. Lee is a pretty sharp cookie. IIRC I posted part of Lee's article here on this board a while back.
Then I simply plugged the other connector from the sensor (2 wire 12v) into the connector I had laying in the engine compartment to power the sensor. The whole job took maybe 10 minutes.

I have read that some O2 sensors have to have a path or gap between the wire and the insulation for air to pass in order for the O2 sensor to work. Kind of like a signal or calibration source. That may or may not be true, I just don't know enough about the design to say. Maybe some of them are like that, maybe all, maybe none. I am sure someone here with more knowledge on the subject will contribute.

I intentionally did not disturb the wire or insulation anywhere except at the end because of that.
I also had an air/fuel ratio meter hooked up to double-check the functioning of the sensor, it was spot on and got rid of the constant slow wild swinging it was doing prior to installation.
I was very careful and nervous about getting it wrong because I am running a turbocharger and don't want to go lean under boost but all that worry was unnecesasary as the changes I made were all simple and positive.

JK-81SC · 11-30-2005, 01:14 PM

Thanks Sam,

I tracked down the write-up you did and added it to my collection of Pelican articles that have saved me countless hours of frustration.

mikester · 12-08-2005, 12:34 PM

I'm surprised nobody said anything about it but if you notice my RPMs at 15 and 25 there they are REALLY LOW.

They tested me in 2nd and 3rd gear - whoa!

I went back there and they said they HAVE to test it in second. I said "Show me in the book where it says that" and they did but I didn't interpret it that way. It seemed subjective, I need to look it up myself. Anyway - the place my mechanic normally takes it to has tested it in 1st and 2nd in the past so I'm planning on going there for a try on my own and failing that just taking it to the mechanic to have him get it through.

It's just so stressful; it's just easier to pay him to go do it for me cause he'll call me when he's done and has it through.