diagnose this handling

twobone · twobone's Garage

Is this excessive lean for a stock SC?

My buddies (non P-Car owners) give me a hard time and say that a sports car should corner flatter.

I was contemplating thicker Torsion bars and replacement Bilstiens....do I really need them?

90% of my driving is on the street with a few autocross and DE events each year.

Tyson Schmidt · 12-20-2005, 05:13 PM

Uh, yeah, I'd say that's excessive. Pretty normal for stock suspension driven in anger though.

It's possible to get a better handling car without ruining it as a street car.

Some 21mm front, and 27mm rear, or 22f/28r torsions along with some Bilstein Sports front and rear will make it night and day better, and still have a decent street ride.

Or just do the shocks and the late sways. (22front and 21 rear from the late Carreras.)

buster73 · buster73's Garage

Quite normal for stock suspension. There is an endless list of modifications available with sway bars and torsion bars being the key ingredients. However I would not care what your buddies are telling you. If you like how the car feels in everyday traffic and have no intention to break the lap record at the next track event, there is no need to change anything. Once you can drive the car to 100% of its potential, there is still time to think about modifications. And you might still be able to blow away your buddies in their sports cars anyway.

Esel Mann · 12-20-2005, 07:52 PM

Is it really that bad? My thinking is in terms of the comparison naturally and fairly being made with other sports cars of similar era.

What stock sports car of similar era does not roll as such under similar stress?

In the photos it looks as if all four tires are still making contact with the pavement. Is that really that bad, especially when considering its in the context of the occasional AX and DE?

How old are the suspension components (shocks, struts, bushings)? Has the car been lowered at all? I bring these up because in prior threads, others with driving profiles such as yours have commented on noticable handling improvement through simple maintenance of worn parts as well as (but certainly not necessary) lowering to euro height.

Roll or no roll it looks to me that you are having a blast driving such a wonder piece of machinery and in the spirit for which it is/was intended! Enjoy on!!!

P.S. Is it me or has your driving position changed in the photos? In the first two it looks like you are driving from the LHS and in the last photo you are driving from the RHS?

diverdan · diverdan's Garage

Nice Car! Yeah photo one and maybe three appears as though you are lifting the throttle causing the rear end to come up a little which will cause the car to tuck in. Photo two appears more nuetral and when you have your foot in it the P car squats and just hooks up sweetly out of the turn.

Have fun.

twobone · twobone's Garage

thanks

I am pretty happy with the current set up, although I am finding the ride a little harsh. I may replace the bilstiens in an effort to smooth the ride a bit over our notoriously bad Toronto pavement.

I agree that the 3rd picture looks like i'm driving on the RHside. That is the skid pad instructor. I'm on the left hand somewhere.

I'll have my mechanic look over the suspension this spring and give me his 2 cents.

livi · 12-21-2005, 03:51 AM

If thats original shocks I would change them regardless. Makes for a very noticeable difference in ride quality.

masraum · 12-21-2005, 04:37 AM

The stock suspension rolls a fair amount when you have sticky tires and corner hard. It's not really a problem. You can go with bigger torsion bars and/or sways to eliminate some of that. One of the benefits of a softer suspension that will roll more is that it will do better on a rough surface.

jluetjen · jluetjen's Garage

A softer suspension which rolls also provides more feedback to the driver which makes it easier to drive at the limit. To be honest, the only time that a car is rolling "too much" is if one of the following is happening:

1) The car is bottoming on the suspension travel
2) The tire cambers are going exteme (either too negative or more then a little positive)

Another special case is if the car takes too long to take a set ("floaty"), but that's a shock issue rather then too much roll.

I'd focus on driving what you've got first and when you're consistent run after run, and the car is consistently letting you down in specific situations and thus slowing you down, then it's time to go off and fix whatever that problem is.

Chances are by focusing on driving you'll be faster then your buddies who are spending all of their time trying to keep their cars flat.

T-Bone911 · 12-21-2005, 05:04 AM

Mine looked somewhat worse but what a difference when I upgraded to 22/27 t-bars, 19/22 sways and monoballs. Night and day difference. 98% street with DEs when able. Do the upgrade you will love it.

Wil Ferch · 12-21-2005, 05:10 AM

Remind your "buddies" that you ( unlike *them*) are REALLY CRANKING.. a car will lean under those conditions.

Normal stock behavior..and a reasonable compromise for the varied conditions this car needs to go through in life....

Good advice here on upgrades...but your "sweet-spot" will be more toward sporting purposes and the car will be less "sweet" in other duties you may call upon it.

Everthing is a compromise...understand where you want to be.....

Wil