Opinions on this 930 header?

porschett · 10-02-2005, 07:28 PM

Price is good, but I'm weary about "you get what you pay for"

What do you think?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8003870471

slow&rusty · 10-02-2005, 07:47 PM

Those Schnell headers have been debated quite abit on here and Rennlist. The consensus is that someone should pony up and buy them and test them...no far no one has. Up for the challenge?

I would Jet-Coat them before installing them, to keep the heat in the pipes and also to prtect the metal and welds.

Regards - Yasin

WydRyd · 10-02-2005, 08:05 PM

They'd be fine for a relatively low power CIS setup, but if you are after serious HP development, Marco Menzie is your man. His headers are the best in the industry, but be prepared to pay for it. He uses the best collectors and materials

porschett · 10-03-2005, 07:00 AM

I may pony up for this set instead...a little cheaper and won't hurt the wallet if it failes.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7997870501

RarlyL8 · RarlyL8's Garage

350HP930 has a set of those, purchased on e-bay some time ago for his engine rebuild.
I don't like the angle that the waste gate pipe comes off. In stead of a 90* angle it should be a 45* going in the same direction as the turbo mount.

89turbocabmike · 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by porschett
I may pony up for this set instead...a little cheaper and won't hurt the wallet if it failes.

The problem with both of these header sets is the fact they are 304. The 321 SS have a tough enough time handling the heat. I have a set of powerhaus 321's (I believe B&B made them)that are a perfect example of the cracking that can occur and this is from just daily driving with no track time other than 2 auto-x events.
I'm pretty sure that Albert from goingsuperfast.com makes Schnell's also. 350HP930 bought a set of Albert's that are awaiting the completion of his rebuild. The collectors use to be built like B&B's...actually the whole header was like B&B. Then Vertex started selling them and Albert stopped listing them on ebay or his site(non-competition agreement)? Now Albert is back selling them with a different collector design that is swaged? around the primary tubes. In any case I think it would be prudent to find out if you can jet-hot coat the Inside of the headers regardless of which SS is used, to protect the welds and SS from the heat. The possible problems from cracking headers can be debris from the headers being ingested by your turbo.....ouch! I can say that I recently bought a new turbo drip tank from Albert and the tig quality is excellent.

porschett · 10-03-2005, 08:48 AM

Good feedbacks guys. Well, I just bought the set including the drip tank. For the price, I think it's good for my purpose (i.e., no track day, occasional drives). Looking from his web site, it looks like he's got a killer 930 setup as well as EFI. Since he 'eats his own dog food', I'm hopping that it's good quality.

Should I wrap the headers or not?

89turbocabmike · 10-03-2005, 09:03 AM

I would definitely not wrap the headers. I think the small benefit would be far outweighed especially with 304.

The luck for most aftermarket 930 header manufacturers(not including manzie, holcomb and a few others) is they don't get driven often......

David · David's Garage

One tip, if you're going to use a lamda sensor, move it to after the turbo.

Craig 930 RS · 12-04-2005, 12:29 PM

"The problem with both of these header sets is the fact they are 304. The 321 SS have a tough enough time handling the heat. I have a set of powerhaus 321's (I believe B&B made them)that are a perfect example of the cracking that can occur and this is from just daily driving with no track time other than 2 auto-x events.
I'm pretty sure that Albert from goingsuperfast.com makes Schnell's also. 350HP930 bought a set of Albert's that are awaiting the completion of his rebuild. The collectors use to be built like B&B's...actually the whole header was like B&B."
--------
So which is better for track applications........321 or 304?

Steve@Rennsport · 12-04-2005, 02:34 PM

Quote:

So which is better for track applications........321 or 304?

Well sir,..................neither one, to be perfectly honest.

Both materials are a poor choice when EGT's wind up in the 1550-1600 deg range that is a result of higher-than-stock boost levels.

If one really wants a durable exhaust,.....be prepared to spend some $$$ and have something made from Inconel. Thats really the only way to do this right.

Craig 930 RS · 12-04-2005, 03:08 PM

That is exactly what I have heard. I shudder to think what inconels cost.

Given the choice of 321 or 304, which would you pick?

rcwaldo · 12-04-2005, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Craig911
That is exactly what I have heard. I shudder to think what inconels cost.

Given the choice of 321 or 304, which would you pick?

If I had the choice between only those two, 321 for sure. Seamless 321 is tough to find right now.

Inconel is king!!

Steve@Rennsport · 12-04-2005, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Craig911
That is exactly what I have heard. I shudder to think what inconels cost.

Given the choice of 321 or 304, which would you pick?

LOL,..In the long run, an Inconel exhaust system is far cheaper and you'll not be chasing cracks,.....

Remember, each time one welds a crack (TIG or MIG), the parent metal hardens on each side of the weld and becomes easier to crack. Its a downward spiral.

321 is better than 304 in these applications, for sure.

Never have a Ceramic-Metallic coating (Jet-Hot type stuff) applied to the inside of any pipe used on turbocharged cars because WHEN it flakes off, that material destroys turbochargers. BTDT.

Craig 930 RS · 12-04-2005, 06:51 PM

Excellent advice....as always.
Steve, what (approx) do a set of inconels cost? Can you source a set?

Steve@Rennsport · 12-04-2005, 07:05 PM

Its been many years since I had a set made up and steel prices have really gone up over the past 24 months.

I think one would spend somewhere north of $ 3500 for a set of heat exchanger/headers for a car like yours.

Let me talk with some of my specialty fabricators about this.

Craig 930 RS · 12-04-2005, 07:26 PM

(Unfortunately) I need them with heat --

Steve@Rennsport · 12-04-2005, 07:30 PM

Oh yes, thats a given,....

David · David's Garage

There's some good info on Inconel at www.burnsstainless.com

BTW, $3500 sounds really good for an custom inconel header, especially if they use the Burns collectors.

David · David's Garage

There's some good info on Inconel at www.burnsstainless.com

BTW, $3500 sounds really good for a custom inconel header, especially if they use the Burns collectors.