911SC with 3.6 Purchase Advice

[rrsrsr]

I am going to look at a 1982 911SC coupe tomorrow & hoping to get some advice.

The owner claims the car is rustfree, with 135,000 miles.
It has a 1992 3.6 engine installed. There are no records unfortunately. I don't think there have been any suspension or brake upgrades... other than the engine the car is basically stock.

If the car drives well & appears to be well cared for I would definitely want to get a good mechanic to go through the car before making a offer. I have done some searches & realize that an upgraded or added oil cooler is a must so will look for that. Is there anything else particular to 3.6 conversions I should look out for when I see the car?

What would be a baseline value for an average SC with 3.6 upgrade (assuming mechanically there are no major issues?)? I have seen a few 3.6 conversions advertised, but most are extensively upgraded cars in the $18k - $28k range.

[petevb]

My rule of thumb for this kind of car: Value of the base car + 1/2 to 1/3 the value of any upgrades. *If* the SC is worth 11k before upgrade, and you figure the motor cost the guy 10k to get installed, I figure a ballpark value is 14k (good deal)-16k (average deal). If the car is nicer or there are other mods adjust.

From there it's all about how close is it to what you want, how much more will you put into it (because a 3.6 in an early car with nothing else will probably need other stuff), etc. FYI, a friend just picked up a G-50 carrera with a V-ram, RSR coilovers, fiberglass fenders, great condition, etc for 22k, though I consider that a steal.

Try to find out where he bought the stuff for the conversion and who put it in- you can probably backtrack with Patrick or Instant-G to learn more if the guy really has no records. No records is bad, but not a deal breaker IMHO. Also understand Smog can be a big issue depending on the state.

[SalazarS2K]

I agree with pete on this one, fair value of the car plus ~ 1/2 spent on the conversion. The 3.6 motor will make it a fun car. Besides checking out the oil cooler, I would also recommend looking carefully at the overall install.

The motor should look stock sitting in the engine bay with no loose wires etc. hanging off.

Look at the rear engine mounts to see if there is a 1 inch spacer which lowers the engine a bit to make it level (this was in the Timmins kit).

The engine cross member should be re-enforced to handle the torque of the newer motor, you will see tabs welded on the arms to strengthen it.

Inspect the harness which runs from the motor to the DME and the electrical wires that run to the fusebox (there should be a firewall in the S/C cars). If the guy had a kit, everything should be neat and tidy.

Inspect the trottle cable linkage for looseness and that it opens at WOT, since this is a custom piece.

Find out if a lighter flywheel was installed. If it is installed, than you want to know if the DME is chipped to accomodate the lighter flywheel (prevents stalling at idle).

Exhaust. This is important b/c just about every single 3.6 conversion has used some type of custom setup. Does it have headers and no heat? 993 H/Es with a custom muffler? Check to ensure that the muffler isn't touching anything it shouldn't like the bumper.

Inspect all of the dash gauges to make sure they all work.

Thats all I can think of off the top of my head, good luck and post some pictures if you can.

[Kevin Stewart]

the 3.6 conversion with motor is probably worth 10k (with all conversion parts), at 14k i think i would part it out, if the car is really nice 20k is not out of the question, many people here have 20k in the 3.6 conversion, Kevin

[ken_xman]

As I am selling a modified 87 currently. I can tell you to NOT pay any extra for ANY modifications. As a seller its near impossible to get the money back on anything changed.

[Shuie]

Is the car exempt from emissions testing where you live? If not, make sure it will pass all registration requirements.

[petrolblue83911]

Just to second Sherman's comment, in some states, you could be subject to the emissions regs from the year of the motor - 92 in this case, so check this out!!

[William Miller]

SalazarS2K, I'm a little confused because I'm new to this subject.
Which engine cross bar is used?
It seems like you are saying that cross bar out of the eirlier car is used so it needs to be strengthened.
Is that right?
If the cross bar out of the 3.6 was used, wouldn't it be designed for the load?
I'm just starting to sort some of these things out.
I know Timmins does this modification with the kit, but maybe I'm not sure which bar to send him.

I would think the 3.6 bar and mount needs to stay with the engine when you get it?
Thanks!

[SalazarS2K]

Originally posted by William Miller
SalazarS2K, I'm a little confused because I'm new to this subject.
Which engine cross bar is used?
It seems like you are saying that cross bar out of the eirlier car is used so it needs to be strengthened.
Is that right?
If the cross bar out of the 3.6 was used, wouldn't it be designed for the load?
I'm just starting to sort some of these things out.
I know Timmins does this modification with the kit, but maybe I'm not sure which bar to send him.

I would think the 3.6 bar and mount needs to stay with the engine when you get it?
Thanks!

William, when converting to the 3.6, you will have to reuse some of the older parts like the engine tin off of your old motor. The old cross bar must be retained (and re-enforced) since the 3.6 one has fitment issues. If you know how to weld, I'm sure if you see one done or mine, than it can be easily replicated. Since you live in the area, I'll be happy to show you my conversion one of these days when the weather gets warmer or you are welcome to stop by.

[Bill Verburg]

Which engine cross bar is used?

The stock one needs to be slightly modified and reinforced
here's a shot of mine

[William Miller]

Sorry for the OT excursion.
I was planning on selling the two 3.0 engines that I have.
One is an 83 Euro with cab bracket. (I assume no go)
Other is an 81 US with standard bracket.
Do you also use the old part (carrier) that mounts to the engine itself?
Does the engine tin really bolt right up?
What else do I need to keep from the 3.0 engines?
Thanks. Chin, Thanks for the offer. I can't wait to see it!

[Bill Verburg]

One is an 83 Euro with cab bracket. (I assume no go)

either works, the cab just hasthat shock thingy, don't know if it is useful or not.

Do you also use the old part (carrier) that mounts to the engine itself?

yes

Does the engine tin really bolt right up?

no, it neees to be extensively modified, use the tin form the 3.6 as a starting point.

What else do I need to keep from the 3.0 engines?

depends on how it's done, the first one I did used parts of the throttle linkage and the temp sender, the second used Timmons kit and only needed the temp sender.

[William Miller]

Thanks, on the cab, I ended up bolting a piece of 1/4" aluminum to replace the worn out dampner. The doughnut was still there, but this, in itself improved shifting a lot.
Still confused on the tin. Do I modify the old tin using the new tin as a giude? Or the new tin using the old tin as a giude?
Timmins site mentioned that the C2 throttle cable will work fine, but not easy.
I've been searching this 3.6 topic for a while, but haven't come across a thread on this subject. Can you point me in the right direction?

[Bill Verburg]

Originally posted by William Miller
Or the new tin using the old tin as a giude?

yes

You are the right place now

[deoxford]

bill,
let em know whan you go to sell the euro, Cost pics and history
Thanks
Derek

oxfordsearly911@mchsi.com

[rrsrsr]

Well I finally had a chance to look at the car.

Other than the engine & stuff directly associated w/ the engine it is bone stock. Suspension & brakes are original.

It drives like your average 100,000-200,000 mile SC except has more hp. If it had the stock engine in good health I guess I'd say its a 8k-10k SC.

I think it has been repainted once (a relatively good repaint). I couldn't find the color code plate (not sure where to look on an 82) but I don't think its had a color change. No rust or obvious signs of previous damage.

This is the engine compartment:


Ther engine idles quite low (about 800rpm) and fluctuates a little. Aparently the car has just passed smog. Its a 1992 engine.

It appears to have the stock 3.0 exhaust system (heat x'ers, cat & muffler):
It drips some oil.

There is only one cooler that I could locate- in the passenger fenderwell :

Is this the Carrera type cooler or something else? The test drive was too short to get any insight on running temperatures.

The car is in CA & has been certified by the smog referee.
Clutch is heavy & shifter sloppy.
Interior is average. Dash is not cracked.

In short it is asking for a bunch of work ($$) to be done with suspension, brakes.

[rrsrsr]

Also there is a red light on the dash (adjacent the OXS light) which I think must be the 'check engine' light for the 3.6.
The light is illuminated, whatever that means?

There are really no records w/ the car at all.

[einreb]

Originally posted by rrsrsr

Is this the Carrera type cooler or something else? The test drive was too short to get any insight on running temperatures.

Conventional wisdom is that you should have more cooling since the 3.6 does not also have the engine mounted cooler. Sort of depends on where you live and the type of driving. Mine sees warm summers and 'light' track duty, thus the additional front mounted cooler.

One positive thing to note would be that the A/C seems to be installed (doies it work?)... thats some $ to hook back up when a conversion is done.

the exhaust system will be holding that engine back. thats a cheap way to get the 3.6 in the car, but it would be better served with the swapped flange 993 or b&b headers. not a show stopper, but something to consider.

-bernie

[aigel]

That cooler in the fender is NOT a stock Carrera cooler. It looks larger. I don't care for the chicken wire, but it may actually cool pretty well, being so big. Note that some of the big cooler cars you see on this site are built for the track, not for city driving. For example, a trombone in an SC works just fine on a daily driver - not for the track though.

I don't care about that sweatty with oil underside of the 3.6. I guess no records also means that there is no records on the mileage on the 3.6? If there is oil sweat and drips now, it will be real leaks soon down the line.

I agree, the exhaust must choke the hell out of that engine. A quick way to make smog, I suppose, but there are 30 horsepower and some serious top end to be found there.

If the check enigne light is on, something isn't right. This is pre-obdII, so I don't really know how to check this. However, you will not pass smog with the light on. I don't know if they read codes for pre OBDII. If you buy this car only buy it if it is smogged for you. Within the two years that you have until the next smog, you can figure out how to put decent smog legal exhaust on there. You won't have to go back to the rerferee for that.

So, sounds like you are a bit disappointed. I think the car overall may not be bad. Just add up the part cost for an unknown 3.6 that runs (5k?) plus a worn SC (8k) and you arrived at your maximum number.

I would only buy this if a 3.6 equipped car is what you always wanted. Since it is a custom car, you can then proceed to big brakes, nice suspension, a lightened interior and track safety equipment. That can be a lot of fun.

If you don't want to do any work, move on and wait for a completed car, including suspension and brakes ...

Comment regarding kenxman's 87: No offense. I just want to piont out that that car has no power add ons. All the modifications are primarily for looks. No suspension mods, no track safety either. I am not saying that you can get all your money back with an engine upgrade, but it certainly will be a better return than with an updated bumper or some bigger wheels. It's just like a house. Certain remodeling efforts pay back better than others at resale.

George

[87coupe]

I'd pass on this one. Anyone who does a conversion like that and doesn't spring for an item like a new engine pad while the motor is out has done it on a shoe string budget. Not what you want.