3.6 conversion parts: engine crossmember + conversion DME harness?
 

I'm proceeding on my 3.6 conversion into my early RSR clone. The 3.2 will be history very soon.

Just looking for pictures and dimensions of the modified engine crossmembers from the 3.6 conversion folks.

Also, anyone have a schematic and / or photos of the 993 DME harness? I am trying to determine if I build my own or buy one from Patrick.

Here's my conversion application (self serving photo) ;-)http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1136684137.jpg

The rear crossbar is bent foreward about an inch and then reinforced.There are some pictures at instant G.com .Timmons also sells the conversion harness. I have used his harness to install a 964 engine. The pelican member "ishmitz"(?) has a schematic also . The factory style plugs are expensive and it,s probably easier to buy the adapter harness complete.

Any ideas of where you can buy the factory electrical harness connectors? Maybe it is simplest just to buy the electrical adaptor.

Looks like with the stack of crank pulleys on the 3.6 crankshaft, the factory redesigned the engine console mount to clear that stack.

Is the bent crossmember only necessary if you use the 993 or 964 factory engine console mount?

IE can you back date the console and single crank pulley using the console from the SC (or earlier) and a Patrick Motorsport single pulley and use a straight crossmember?

Thank you,

Doug

I cut the factory 964 engine mount and welded on the earlier style ends on my install. It's relatively straight. The 964 / 993 mounts are not interchangeable with the earlier ones.

As for the electricals, I used the factory connector at the new rear fuse box (it's a multi plug similar to the one that connects the motor to the rear fuse box. It was purchased used at a swap meet). This way I didn't have to cut any of the existing harnesses. I can simple unplug the newer or older engine electricals when swapping motors. I did this back in 1995 and needed the wiring schematics for both cars to make sure everything was correct.

Tinker

Here's a pic of mine ready to go into a '76 Carrera chassis
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1136408882.jpg

I would suggest that you buy the conversion harness from Dr Timmins, it will save you a lot of headaches.

I'm looking into this as well. The recipient is a US 81 SC.
A friend is parting out his 964 so the entire harness is avalible, as well as fuel lines, throttle cable among whatever else I need.

I'm told it's a 993 long block with the 964 injection and Electronics.

Is the 964 and 993 carrier and cross bar the same?
Is it the same modification. The pully doesn't look like a big dampner.

Since I can get the harness beyond the 14 pin connector and the connectors on the DME, how much should I get. (I assume at least the connectors are valuable and I can splice in wires on the car end of the connectors.

What needs to be modified to get the 964 throttle cable on to the SC?
Hope to learn something in this thread.
Thanks

You will need the whole harness from the engine to the DME under the front drivers seat, the DME and the engine.

The 964 and 993 uses essentially the same block w/ mostly interchangeable external parts. Yes, the engine mounts are the same.

The 964 pulley includes a harmonic balancer, to control vibration from crankshaft whip the 993 does not. My 993 above has the single sheave RS pulley.

a normal 964 pulley will look like this,it's best to leave the 964 pulley/harmonic balancer in place.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1136775484.jpg


There have been a # of threads on the throttle cable topic I am currently using Timmins iteration, others have done different things

try a search.

Bill,
Thanks for your reply and advice!
Just curious, how did you (or other converters) hook up the scavenge oil line to the thermostat? Do you install the early hard metal line from the crankcase to the factory flex line (to the thermostat)?

OR is there a special conversion piece? Are the 964 and 993 crankcases different in this regard?

Doug

I used the earlier hardline that goes under the flywheel
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa..._008_small.jpg

This is a good choice for 964 t/ps but complicates changing the 993 engine mounted filter. I have considered using a flex line over the top. But have made no final decision about changuing it. When I get too fed up at oil changes then I may do something.

Bill,
That's the ticket!
Thanks again for the excellent advice!

Doug

For the money, time, and effort you are much better off buying the Timmin's kit. The other added bonus is if you purchase from him he will provide tech support if you need it.

Great advice!

I have bought an engine package from someone that is providing a complete package for the 3.6 / early car. Some of those parts are sourced from Patrick Motorsports. In short, I'm just trying to ensure that I have everything I need. I'm getting close to finalizing that I have it covered thanks to great advice from Bill, Ischmitz and others.

If I did not buy the kit as a package, I'd be buying a package from Timmons.

The Pelican community seems to provide great technical support independent of Timmons. I hope I'm not asking too much of the community, however. I do always give back, based on what I've learned, though.

Thanks,

Doug

Ive built my own harness once, and used Timmins kit harness. Its definetly doable, but just so much easier, and really not much more just to buy his.

I think I read on the PMS site that their harness has the connection for a code reader. That seems pretty important. Does Timmims harness have that? Is it part of the harness that goes from the engine to the DME?

I used the PMS harness and loved it. Needed it when installing Bill Verburgs old 3.6 in my car. It does have the port on the harness for a code reader.

Jim can be gruff at times but spend the 5c and call him. He will spend hours on the phone helping if needed. Timmins does not want to be bothered unless you have bought a kit from him or at least that was my experience.

I asked Ingo about the harness with the code reader. He said the tool needed to read the codes thru this connection was "unobtanium". He said you can get the codes off the blinking check engine light.

By the way, Ingo has the harness diagram on his web site. Good to review even if you do buy a kit. I'm not sure Timmins has any pictures of his harness avalible or any explination of how it hooks up.

Bill, Since I pulled the engine a few days ago, I have confirmed that I have the oil filter and the oil line below it seems to be held in by a flange and a bolt or two. What was your method for extending this? It seems if it's part of a kit there must be different parts for different engine configurations. What is your issue with changing the filter. I have an early style oil line on my 3.0 that has SSI's, but now I'm concerned because of your comments. Does the line have to come off or something to get the filter off? If so I'd like to solve that issue while I'm doing the swop. What are your thoughts?

Just a new thought. Does anyone think the bottom part of a 3.0 engine oil cooler would work? I bet it's the correct length and I could probably locate a bad oil cooler for cheap and just remove the tube on the bottom.
Thoughts?

Hi Guys

I'm right in the middle of all this and have had help from Bill so thought I would save him some time and chip in with some comments:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1137166242.jpg

I have added lebels to the image that Bill posted above showing each of the parts that are in question.

The Adaptor pipe is a modified part that is needed since the 3.6 engines dont have an oil cooler like 3.2's and the S hose wont reach from the tank to the engine.

The Scavange pipe crosses from one side of the engine to the other under the bellhousing and passes the side of the engine oil filter

The engine oil filter is as you can see above the Adaptor pipe (the original part on the 3.6 routes differently and doesnt interfere as badly) and I would imagine a nightmare to get to once the engine is in the car.

I'm busy with this task at the weekend and need to just make a decission on it - I'm in the process of making the Power steering sheetmetal blockoff and need to make a bracket to hold the 2 oil lines so I'm hoping I can come up with something that means its not so much of a nightmare to change the filter.

Hope this helps someone at least

cheers

Hey William, just seen your post...

From what I can tell the Adaptor pipe just uses a standard fitting into the block with a longer tube welded on to meet the S hose

Thanks, I'd love to see what you come up with. It seems with Bill's heat exchangers, the scavenge pipe looks like it would be relativly easy to disconnect because the connector at the engine is very accesable.
I need to see one with the 993 heat exchangers. Like the SSI's on my 3.0 and the 964 HE's on the engine now that connection is difficult.

The bottom tube on the 993 comes out about 1/2 way and I think the rubber hose has a 90 turning it up.

Here is a pic of the early line used on a 993t/p w/993 headers
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1137183560.jpg

The S hose adaptor pipe can be purchased form Steve T/, B&B or make your own.

OK, did anyone ever try putting a 3.0 engine oil cooler on the 993 engine. The tradeoff is more cooling / less filtering and no more headache changing the filter. Was there something different with the 993 that required more filtering, or was it just because they decided to use the space because the earlier cooler was not there?

I assume there would also be some different engine tin modifications to allow the air to get to the cooler.

I guess the main thing is Will It Fit?

Bill, You are the picture wizard! What you have to go thru to change the filter. Do you disconnect the line or can you get it out some other way.

993 has hyd. lifters

964 just had a blocking plate there.

I have used channel locks to crush and twist, screwdriver to punch and twist and a strap wrench, they all work but it's not pretty. And it is very messy.

I haven't done the disconnect, maybe next time.

So should I forget the idea of putting the oil cooler on?
I just pulled the filter housing and the lower tube off to take a look.
I didn't pull the cooler off the 3.0 yet, because I'm not sure about the connection for the lower tube in the existing 3.0 cooler. I'm now thinking that I could take the tube off the 3.0 cooler and substitute the one from the 993. Maybe combine them to get the longer tube for the s hose at the same time.


So it seems I could make it work, but should I? I WAS all excited!
Is that filter just upstream of the cam oiling?

Bringing this thread back from the dead. I'm installing a '95 3.6 into my '87 Carrera. I'd like to use a pre 964 engine cross member rather than modifying the 964/993 unit. Is this reasonably possible, and if so, what parts are needed aside from the obvious early style engine crossmember? I intend on using my factory 3.2 engine tins. Thanks In Advance.

-Dino

If I recall correctly you bend the early crossmember slightly and use spacers(washers) on the ends for height adjustment

Thanks.

I'm a bit late to this party as I only just came across this thread.
Yes, a 911 engine oil cooler can be fitted to 964 and 993 crankcases but it involves drilling out some holes and coming up with modified engine shroud to get air to the oil cooler. I preferred this approach to adding another cooler up front.
This thread includes most of the details.
I thought I had a leak from my special adaptor at the bottom of the oil cooler so I changed the design as per pic below. The leak turned out to be a pin hole in the cooler! :( See post #115.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1460553440.jpg