Adjustable Sway bar explanation and brands question.

PorscheGuy79 · PorscheGuy79's Garage

Allright with most of the suspension allready reworked my next step would be adjustable sway bars, I think. Im curious if someone could give me an explanation on how the adjustment aspect of them works. I was also wondering about what brands out there are considered good bars without being too expensive.

PorscheGuy79 · PorscheGuy79's Garage

bump...

coloradoporsche · 01-13-2006, 09:29 AM

Hi Matthew,

I have the same question. I'm also wondering how upgrading to stiffer non-adjustabe sway bars (a cheaper solution) compares. I've heard that 90% of the folks who put on adjustable bars just set and leave them.

Do people really adjust these for each track?

Regards, Martin

edward993 · 01-13-2006, 09:42 AM

Hmmm, no one to help...

Hi Matthew,

The sway bars' ends curve at 90 degrees, then connect to droplinks/suspension points. It is at this 90degree juncture that you can affect the leverage applied onto the bar. If you bolt the droplink attachment further from the axis of the bar (i.e. more towrd the very end of the bar), you alter the leverage placed onto the bar, in this case "softening" the sway bar's effect. Conversely, bolt the droplink closer to its axis (away from the very end of the bar) and the result is "stiffening" the sway bar.

I don't know brands well, especially since I'm more a 993 guy and still familiarizing myself with my SC-Trackmesiter. But I can tell you that Smart Racing's bars get consistent praise, and I have "heard" of Weltmeister bars breaking on occasion (pure hearsay on the latter, so take with a grain of salt). And at least for the 993/964 cars, you can get OEM "RS" bars which have pre-drilled holes for adjustment; aftermarket bars (like TRG bars for the 993s/964s) have collars, of sorts, which allow you to slide them to any position, in effect allowing you to get "between" bolt holes, as it were. I'll leave actual experience of each specific bar to someone who actually knows what he's talking about.

Hope this helps you

Edward

tc-sacto · 01-13-2006, 09:53 AM

From the Smart Racing Products web site documents.

Car has a push:
Turn in............softern front
Turn exit.........Stifen rear

Car oversters
on turn in......Stifen front
on exit..........Soften rear or stifen front

edward993 · 01-13-2006, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by coloradoporsche
Hi Matthew,

I have the same question. I'm also wondering how upgrading to stiffer non-adjustabe sway bars (a cheaper solution) compares. I've heard that 90% of the folks who put on adjustable bars just set and leave them.

Do people really adjust these for each track?

Regards, Martin

Hi Martin,

Years ago, I had upgraded my factory sways on my 993 (then a dual-purpose daily driver/track car) to the thicker OEM RoW turbo bars and loved it. Used, they are a great bargain and a huge improvement in flatter cornering and reducing understeer. Are they as good as adjustables? Most likely not, but then I'm not that "serious" a driver. At a price *difference* of over $600 for the f/r set and what I got, I could not afford to be that serious. But that's really up to you.

Do folks change them for the track? Again, I'm not that "serious" but from most track junkies I've hung with, most will adjust them to the point where they get the car to behave how they want it to behave ...then leave them. But if you're like one of my buddies who SCCA's a GT1 class 650HP beast, then yeah, you change bar settings according to track, tire brand, moon color, etc.

Remember, it is just as expensive to "over buy" for your car as it is to "underbuy" then have to purchase again to get it right. So if I were you, I'd consider my intended "mission" for the car and base my suspension choices on that.

Edward

MuffinMan · 01-13-2006, 10:45 AM

While it is true that most drivers probably do "set it and forget it" as far as adjustable sway bars go, the huge advantage is that you *can* set the amount of understeer/oversteer that you prefer. If you go with fixed sway bars and your particular setup tends to understeer, you are somewhat stuck with that handling characteristic. Sure, you can attempt to dial it out with a different alignment, different spring rates, different tire pressures, etc, but it is much more work than taking 5 minutes to adjust the sways. It is amazing how much moving those bars a few inches changes the dynamics of the car.

Another advantage is if you're a new driver, perhaps set it for a bit of understeer to make for a safer car that's less likely to spin. Once you have some time under your belt, go to a more neutral setting.

I both autocross and track my 911. While I do tend to leave my sways at a particular setting on the track once I find something I like, I change them notably for more oversteer at autocrosses. This flexibility is nice, but it does come at a price.

Mike Bonkalski · 01-13-2006, 12:23 PM

Matt,

What type of handling issues are you having when tracking the car?

Since you have just upgraded everthing, I would drive the local tracks (Blackhawk, Gingerman and RA), see where you are at vs. last year and then investigate upgrading to adjustable sways.

They are an expensive upgrade and if you find that a thicker, non-adjustable bar meets you needs at the tracks that you drive at, you've just put a whole bunch of money back in your pocket to pay for DE's. Just something to think about...

Cory M · 01-13-2006, 12:29 PM

The tarret bars are high quality and pretty affordable:

http://www.tarett.com/store.asp

I'm pretty sure Pelican stocks them too.

Tyson Schmidt · 01-13-2006, 12:42 PM

If you aren't hard-core tracking the car, and you want to keep things cheap, I've found the best solution is a stock 21mm rear swaybar from the late Carreras, coupled with an adjustable 22mm front swaybar from one of the many manufacturers is a great solution.

You get 90% of the performance at much less cost. You really only need to adjust one end to get the car's handling balanced. Sure, it doesn't give you as much tuning ability, but it's splitting hairs, really. There is also a nice advantage to the stock rear swaybar being very simple, durable, and doesn't interfere with the toe adjusters like most aftermarket bars, making alignments easier.

PorscheGuy79 · PorscheGuy79's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyson Schmidt
If you aren't hard-core tracking the car, and you want to keep things cheap, I've found the best solution is a stock 21mm rear swaybar from the late Carreras, coupled with an adjustable 22mm front swaybar from one of the many manufacturers is a great solution.

Tyson,

Intersting idea and probably what I will end up doing because you are exactly right, very cost effective. I aways assumed you would want to make the rear adjustable but the front works just as good?

PorscheGuy79 · PorscheGuy79's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Bonkalski
Matt,

What type of handling issues are you having when tracking the car?

Well I havent had it out to the track since the upgrades but I found the front end still has quite a bit of roll which I would like to get rid of. I just think it could be a bit siffer, and the extra adjustment is nice.

Tyson Schmidt · 01-13-2006, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PorscheGuy79
Tyson,

Intersting idea and probably what I will end up doing because you are exactly right, very cost effective. I aways assumed you would want to make the rear adjustable but the front works just as good?

Makes no difference which end you adjust, so long as the basic roll stiffness is set correctly with the torsion bars.

I like the stock rear because it is much more durable, and it's the rear bar that is most likely to suffer trauma.

The front upgrade is better too, since it then allows you to go to a through the body bar, which then gives you the abilkty to remove the pre-load by adjusting the drop-links when corner balancing.

MotoSook · 01-13-2006, 05:29 PM

Not to disagree with Tyson, but something to added to the list of things to consider is the skill level of the owner who may be installing the anti-roll bar.

An adjustable rear bar is a bolt on installation*, but the front adjustables currently available require drilling holes in the tub, welding on reinforcement and removal of the gas tank (anyone done it w/o removing the tank?).

*reinforment of the stock rear mounts is recommended. There are a few methods to to achive this, but that is another thread.

As Tyson posted, being able to adjust just one end (front or rear) will let the owner tune the suspension to his/her liking.

Matt: I would hold off on anymore work on your car until you've at least got a couple of track days with your new suspension. Putting on the front or rear anti-roll bar won't put you out for the season...you can do it between DE's. Doing the research now is a good idea. I recommended the rear adjustable to you, because that will be the easiest for you to do yourself.

Jim Richards · 01-13-2006, 05:46 PM

Matt, what t-bars did you end up with in your car?

Tyson Schmidt · 01-13-2006, 06:00 PM

Souk, I agree about the front bar install. But It's only painful once. And you don't have to remove the tank to install them. The reinforcement really isn't necessary unless you run a really big bar. The majority of the damage to the inner fenderwell is from adjusting the front bar too tight.

I pretty much hate aftermarket bars in the rear. They are a b!tch to adjust, they interfere with rear toe adjustment, and are always getting scraped up. The only two I like are the Tarrets and Smart Racing. But even the Tarrets are very difficult to adjust out the pre-load on the drop-links, since you must remove the one end before you can adjust it. Smart Racing bars I have no complaints about.

MotoSook · 01-13-2006, 06:04 PM

Gooding faster sure sucks huh?

Jim Richards · 01-13-2006, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Souk
Gooding faster sure sucks huh?

The Guinness kicking in already, buddy?

MotoSook · 01-13-2006, 06:14 PM

Actually, after I got El Cheapo Batardo to start at will, I came in to the house, made dinner (a very tasty beef stir fry thank you!), and I am now drinking more than my share of Fat Bastard Merlot

PorscheGuy79 · PorscheGuy79's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Richards
Matt, what t-bars did you end up with in your car?

Im running 23/30s. Is the stock Carrera (an upgraded one for my stock SC bar) going to be big enough for the T-bars I have?

I will do a search on front sway bar installation because Souk is right, im not that good at working on mechanicals.

Also, the bar isn't going to be a purchased for until after a good chunk of DE's.

Souk had suggested it after driving my car which was interesting because it was something that was on my mind all ready. Im sure that there is much more ability in that car than I have.