Is Tiptronic the same thing as F1's paddle shift?

blue72s · 01-17-2006, 10:53 AM

Yesterday I sat in a 993 tiptronic which had push buttons on the spokes of the steering wheel, and I wondered if it's the same thing as Formula 1's paddle shift. Is it?

If it isn't, then explain what's the difference and why Porsche have not developed one as Ferrari street cars have already.

TIA

Wil Ferch · 01-17-2006, 11:03 AM

by no means.... !!

Paddle shifters..either F1 or advanced street units offered by BMW and others are "basically" manual boxes with servo's / computer shifting aids.

Tiptronic is still basically an torque-converter automatic with elegant shifting modes programmed-in....attacking the problem coming from the auto-trans corner. The others are coming-in from the manual-trans corner...much better IMHO.

Why doesn't Porsche do this? Dunno...maybe too much time-investment in their old obsolete system..and it's hard to admit to a mistake !!

Wil

ZAMIRZ · ZAMIRZ's Garage

Wil, an "F1" transmission is supposedly set to debut on the 997 Turbo after the first couple years of production.

BTW, just because it has paddle shifters doesn't necessarily mean the car has a clutchless manual gearbox, for instance the Audi S4 has paddles on the steering wheel, but is a traditional automatic transmission with torque-convertor.

Wil Ferch · 01-17-2006, 11:30 AM

Amir:
So the 997 Turbo...when it appears NEXT year...won't have this?

We'll have to wait a "few more years" ...???

To get what certain BMW 3- series have offered for close to a decade ???

I'm impressed....

- Wil

a911 · 01-17-2006, 11:37 AM

It would be gr8 if they took Audis DSG gearbox and adopt it to porsche. From all the auto boxes i drove its far superior then anything else. The last one ive tried was in f 430 and it was not close to DSG althou beter then others auto/manual shifters around.
Think its gr8 idea and works super.
I have it in my A3 on 2.0tdi chiped to 175hp and 380nNm. Changes are instant and in no way you could do manual shift quicker. It needs litlle refinmend and Porsche is for sure in the know. Now that they bought 20% of vw it shouldnt be a problem

ZAMIRZ · ZAMIRZ's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Wil Ferch
Amir:
So the 997 Turbo...when it appears NEXT year...won't have this?

We'll have to wait a "few more years" ...???

To get what certain BMW 3- series have offered for close to a decade ???

I'm impressed....

- Wil

Wil, with all due respect, the BMW SMGI gearbox was a joke. It never worked right, was a sales flop and the people who own them now couldn't pay enough to get rid of the damn thing. The SMGII is a marked improvement, but I've driven the E46 M3 and IMHO it is a herky jerky transmission in all but full racing conditions with the transmission set on the most aggressive setting. Forget about going out on a date or tooling around town from stoplight to stoplight with the box in auto mode, it sucks ass. The SMGIII in the newest BMW M5 I've heard is pretty much as good as it's ever been, but I've also heard the auto mode still isn't worth a damn. I don't see the appeal of the SMG box if the auto mode sucks, just more things to break and less control over the transmission.

The PDK that Porsche is going to eventually release on the 997 Turbo, which should debut by this fall and be in showrooms by the end of the year, is most likely being held back due to marketing concerns. If they debut the transmission after the initial hype dies down, it will stimulate sales once more.

derickc · 01-17-2006, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by a911
It would be gr8 if they took Audis DSG gearbox and adopt it to porsche. From all the auto boxes i drove its far superior then anything else. The last one ive tried was in f 430 and it was not close to DSG althou beter then others auto/manual shifters around.
Think its gr8 idea and works super.
I have it in my A3 on 2.0tdi chiped to 175hp and 380nNm. Changes are instant and in no way you could do manual shift quicker. It needs litlle refinmend and Porsche is for sure in the know. Now that they bought 20% of vw it shouldnt be a problem

The DSG box is nothing short of awesome. Actually, the latest version of the tiptronic on the S4 is incredible too.

-dc

Wil Ferch · 01-17-2006, 12:13 PM

Don't worry, no offence taken...

I hope it's not PDK ( Porsche-speak for double clutches).

Whether BMW, or Audi or Ferrari, those cars at least tried to offer a leading edge design....Tip is joke and so is the original PDK used in racing Porsches...very heavy, essentially 2 clutch paks.

The Audi system, as an *example*... is a nice piece, I agree.

-Wil

a911 · 01-17-2006, 03:24 PM

New Bugati have one too. Yes two clutches but smaller so increase is not as big.........

Jim Garfield · 01-17-2006, 04:40 PM

Do you think if they had continued refining the Sportomatic they would be on the cutting edge instead of playing catch up? Then again, there wasn't much demand for it back then...

blue72s · 01-22-2006, 08:55 AM

Is the paddle shift of the street Ferrari 360 of the torque converter or the real manual type of Formula 1?

And what about Audi, BMW etc?

cegerer · cegerer's Garage

Because these gearboxes have a so-called 'automatic' mode they are often confused with automatic transmissions. All Ferrari and BMW sequential gearboxes are MANUAL gearboxes. The only difference being that the clutch is activated via electro-hydraulics rather than your foot. The gearbox itself is the same. I'm really not sure why these gearboxes even have an 'automatic' mode???? I guess because they can

I drive my M3 SMG in full race mode with the stability control switched off 99% of the time. It's an absolute blast and soooo much better, faster, consistant than obsolete 100-year-old foot-operated clutch systems. It's amazing to me that Porsche didn't pioneer this technology for the street given their background with the Sporto and the 962 PDK????

BTW: the new Golf GTI has the sequential DSG gearbox. It's said to be one of the best yet.

Wil Ferch · 01-22-2006, 11:14 AM

hey blue72S:

In addition to cegerer's later reply...I answered your question in my first response to this post.....

." Paddle shifters..either F1 or advanced street units offered by BMW and others are "basically" manual boxes with servo's / computer shifting aids. Tiptronic is still basically an torque-converter automatic with elegant shifting modes programmed-in....attacking the problem coming from the auto-trans corner. The others are coming-in from the manual-trans corner...much better IMHO.."

- Wil

blue72s · 01-22-2006, 12:02 PM

OK thanks.

blue72s · 04-08-2006, 08:29 AM

I've just found out that the Tiptronic S (still the same name) option of the new 997 Turbo is now of the F1 type. It's quicker than manual version

It's currently only available on the Turbo model, but I think it's only a matter of time before it's launched on the Carreras and Caymans too.

ZAMIRZ · ZAMIRZ's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by blue72s
I've just found out that the Tiptronic S (still the same name) option of the new 997 Turbo is now of the F1 type. It's quicker than manual version

It's not a sequential-manual gearbox, or "F1", it's still a traditional torque-convertor automatic. Porsche is still developing the PDK and supposedly will release it on the 911 Turbo next year from what I've heard.

You are right though, the factory is rating the acceleration times for the Tip quicker than the manual transmission.

deoxford · 04-08-2006, 09:47 AM

I love the DSG gear box, it is amazing how well it works.
And the great gas mileage is a plus. I can do ~90 for a 5 hour trip
and still get ~27mpg. The DSG and the 200hp Turbo engine gives the car, the ability to be very quick , and very good on gas when you take it eazy.

BReyes · BReyes's Garage

What is the difference between 964 and 993 tiptronics. You mnetion sometihning on the collumn for one.

Thank You.

Regards,

cegerer · cegerer's Garage

I've just found out that the Tiptronic S (still the same name) option of the new 997 Turbo is now of the F1 type. It's quicker than manual version

That's good news, but shouldn't be surprising. These type of gearboxes simply shift quicker, more consistently and can't miss a gear - up or down. They also allow the driver to concentrate more on steering (with both hands on the wheel, no less

) and braking. The ability to left foot brake makes them faster on road courses as well. About time Porsche joined the 21st century

BTW: Tiptronic is not bad at all for an automatic tranny. I enjoyed it on my Cayenne S. Shifts were reasonably quick.