Metal Conditioning And Epoxy Priming 101

[rennch]

If everyone PMs wayne (or starts a post about it...maybe I will) we could get the ball rolling on a paint and bodywork forum.

[9dreizig]

Originally posted by rw7810
I mentioned this to Wayne some time ago and he generally agreed, but has made the additon yet......

I agree, there are enough dead thread areas and this subject would be really beneficial ,, Wayne???

[rennch]

Ok, I'll start a thread. make sure everyone hits it and puts in their 2 cents.

[rennch]

Ok, here's the post. Subscribe away:

We need an official Paint and Bodywork subforum. All in favor, say aye!

[rennch]

Freddy (Or anyone who knows the answer), I had a couple questions for you from this thread:

1. Is POR-15 Metal Ready the equivalent of your DX 579? () I have a gallon of that already on the shelf.

2. Should I do any preliminary body work before putting on the Epoxy Primer?

3. Does the Epoxy Primer need to be applied in a professional way like paint and clear does, or can I do it in the driveway or in the garage?

4. On that note, does the Epoxy primer need to be from the same manufacturer as whatever paint/clear I use?

Thanks!

[rw7810]

I think I can answer your questions based on my project and research.

1. Metal ready is an acid based rust converter like the DX579. See comment 4.

2. This is a real debatable area, but most pro-body men will recommend filler directly on fresh metal. the epoxy manufactures say it doesn't matter. This forum has a great debate on the issue: http://www.autobodystore.com/forum/index.php

3. The epoxy and primer filler can just be done in the driveway, etc. no need for a homemade booth, etc.

4. This is probably your most important question. Using different manufacturers/vendors can and will cause incompatibility problems. Best to stay with one, PPG, Dupont, POR15, etc.

[rennch]

Bob,

Thanks for all the info...I guess I'll have to pick up my paint, and work backwards from there in terms of my metal prep.

In terms of the bondo on the bare metal, if watching "American Hot Rod" serves me well, they typically blast the car then get the epoxy primer on it right away, before the body work.

[safe]

Does the epoxy primer seal any remaining rust like POR-15 is supposed to do?

[cashflyer]

At my shop, we put the epoxy primer directly to the bare metal (after acid etch). This "seals" the metal.

Originally posted by safe
Does the epoxy primer seal any remaining rust like POR-15 is supposed to do?

I have not evaluated POR-15, but it has been my experience that untreated rust will continue to rust. If you diligently remove all rust and closely follow the directions for acid etching and conversion coating (the process of the two chemical treatments described on page 1), then follow with an epoxy primer... you should be effectively sealed against the elements and against further rust problems.

If you're doing an area like a door jamb where you only have access to one side of the rusted metal... well, that other side will just keep rusting.


Advice is based on my personal experience... and I'm no pro.

[rennch]

Have you guys heard of the POR 15 Metal Ready leaving some kind of oily film? A very experienced Pelicanite told me that and made me wary of using it.

[rw7810]

I've used it quite a bit and never had an oily issue. Preparation of the metal per POR 15 instructions is imperative

[fhernand]

My last rhread on final sanding and painting is out. Hope this help. Freddie

[rennch]

Freddie,

My car has been sitting in bare metal for a while now (a few months) in Colorado (dry climate). It was getting a little film of surface rust, especially over my welds. Today, after reading this thread again, I decided to hit the whole body with POR 15 Metal Ready, which is a zinc converter as well.

These are the results. It looks like the color of "runny rust". Did I do something wrong, or is that the zinc primer?






Should I hit it again with water and a scratch pad?

[fhernand]

Nice job on the stripping. The rust looking stuff is actually Zinc Phosphate. It's actually a good thing to be able to see this film. This means that it is itching the metal. Do try to get some primer on this metal. . . even in Colorado. Good Luck.

[TxSquash]

Freddie,... I've followed your metal condition instructions, using DX579 & DX520. They have left a powdery film on the panel ( I think this is what it's suppose to do, a form of galvinizing). My question, do I remove this film before I epoxy prime? Do I wash the panel, do I wipe it down with wax and grease remover? Or do I just shoot over the powdery film?
Thanks, .. a great instruction series.

Doug

[fhernand]

Doug, you might have left the itching on the panels a little too long before the rinse. No worries though. Wipe with grease and wax remover. Wipe wet and dry right behind the wet rag. Make sure that the rag you use to dry does not leave any bits of lent behind. If it does, use a tack rag right before your primer. I'm glad the suggestions are helping you. Good Luck Doug.

[TxSquash]

Freddie,.. thanks alot for the reply. Onward to the epoxy primer!

Doug

[jass]

Freddie,
Excellent series - I intend to put to good use soon!
I am planning on having my parts media blasted vs chemical strip. On some parts such as hood and fenders, I intend to also lightly blast undersides to clean them all off of paint but leave the good portions of the undercoating. I am assuming then I would move right into using the PPG DX 579 Metal cleaner followed by the DX 520 metal conditioner before priming. Do you see any issue with that? How quickly do I need to get the cleaner/conditioner primer all completed after the media blasting? Should this proces also be used on the undersides where bare metal get's exposed? Will the cleaner/conditioner be an issue on left-over undercoating? Thanks for your help,
Jeff

[HelmetHead]

Fredie,
First let me say that your paint and body work threads are great sources of information and have helped me to overcome some of my fears of doing my own paint work.

My car is currently in a similar situation to Emptyos'...I soda blasted my tub and its been sitting for months. I have the 579 and 520 cleaner/conditioners and my primers ready to go, but I have one major concern with starting on the tub.... Since I will cleaning and conditioning sections of the car, like the interior/dash then priming it and moving on to another section...will the 579 and or 520 cause any damage to new Epoxy primers if it gets on to it? Obviously I will follow the data sheets on cure times and make sure i've got a nice hard coating before I move on to other areas...but I can just see myself getting the entire underside of the car sealed/primered and then I wash off the 579/520 on a inner fender area for example and discover that its discolored the epoxied areas I just completed or something wierd like that.

Any experiences with this or am I in left field?

Thanks in advance,
Einar

[fhernand]

Elinar, you will be safe so as long as you let the epoxy cure well you will be fine. Remember that water on the condition/cleaner quickly cuts the chemical reaction on the metal. I have made it a habit of rinsing twice with some soapy water. Do not mistaken the film left by the condition/cleaner as a bad film. It will leave a film even after you rinse. Sound like a very nice project you got going there. Best wishes.

Jeff, the sooner you clean, condition and prime the metal spots, the better this will be for your bare metal spots. Of course, there are occasions where I have left bare metal sit for a day or two but always enclosed. I epoxy will be fine over the undercoats so as long the undercoating is clean.