Look what I found changing valve cover gaskets today.............

unclenick · 01-20-2006, 06:22 PM

I am so devistated, the car ran great and made no noises at all, no leaks, nothing. I was getting ready to put engine back in car and decided to change valve cover gaskets while I had it out. I dropped the engine to replace the shift rod, now this.

Anyone got a 3.0 for sale on the east coast???????

Hugh R · 01-20-2006, 07:00 PM

Wow, that sucks. Sorry, I hope I never find any of "those" in my engine. I wish you the best of luck. Funny, I feel like I'm talking to someone who just found out they have cancer.

unclenick · 01-20-2006, 07:05 PM

It sucks. When I pulled the cover off and the first one fell on the ground my heart dropped. Then I took a magnet to the others and wella, the other came out. I am not a happy camper right now. Guess I will check out left side in the AM and see if there is any on left side too. I guess I am going to get a crash course on rebuilding a 3.0. I know where my 2005 tax refund is going this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jason2guy · 01-20-2006, 07:18 PM

if thats all thats wrong, replace the studs and forget about it.
for what its worth, i had half as many as you did fall out on me.
tre actually did the repair, one stud, its been 2 yrs.

Joeaksa · 01-21-2006, 12:07 AM

I would put it back in the car and drive it until you find a good deal on another motor.

JoeA

damian911 · 01-21-2006, 12:16 AM

Sorry to hear that too, i had 3 drop out on me 2 weeks ago on my 1st valve adjustment...I was devastated, car is not running to good right now but i think its the wur and not the studs right now...these bolts should be reported to the stud-police.....

unclenick · 01-21-2006, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joeaksa
I would put it back in the car and drive it until you find a good deal on another motor.

JoeA

How long you think she'll last? 3-4 weeks max? I only drive her 22 miles a day in stop in go traffic.

Dixie · Dixie's Garage

Another vote for just replacing the studs. Even if you need to do a full rebuild in six months, you'll already have the studs done.

ChrisBennet · ChrisBennet's Garage

Replace the studs and button her back up.
A "good" used 3.0 could just as easily bust a stud the day after you buy it.
-Chris

JackMan · 01-21-2006, 05:21 AM

Visions like these scare the hell out of me.

MBAtarga · 01-21-2006, 05:29 AM

2 things:
What cylinder(s) did they break from?
Do a search on broken studs with the user "Superman".

wholberg · wholberg's Garage

If the motor is running good, it's out of the car so pull the heads and replace the studs and leave the rest of the motor alone.

Or, since its out of the car, take it down to a good mechanic and a week and $1500 (or so) later you drop it back in the car. Bad studs does not mean the motor is tainted, it is a known problem that has a permanent fix, and the fix is less expensive than a new engine.

Zeke · 01-21-2006, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by unclenick
How long you think she'll last? 3-4 weeks max? I only drive her 22 miles a day in stop in go traffic.

You, yourself said that you didn't notice any noises. Check the affected cylinder bases and cl- to-head unions. No stains, no leaks. You could drive it as a daily, not getting on it real hard (no fun) and go many miles.

But, you already have the motor out. I'd fix it while I could. These are just broken studs, not stripped threads. One is worse than the other to me. You don't have to split the case.

Man, if someone made a stud removal tool that worked from a vertical perspective (down thru the holes in the cly fins), they could make a small fortune. (There isn't such a thing now, is there?) I have a potential desgn if someone wants to contact me.

Jim2 · Jim2's Garage

Since I have never had to deal with a broken head stud I'm not literate with the issue on a first hand basis, but the first thing that came to my mind is a tool as Zeke describes. I frequently make custom tools used in aviation and the concept of an internal extractor (female screw extractor) seems as though it would work.

This will be a limiting factor- What is the smallest diameter of the bore which the head bolt goes through?

Do these always break off mid shaft of the bolt like unclenicks, or do they break off level with the case? Hence what is the longest depth?

How much torque is required to remove the remaining portion of a bolt?

edit, also need to know the diameter of the shank of the bolt?

Jim
79 930 Klunker, Solo I

Wil Ferch · 01-21-2006, 08:37 AM

The head studs are likely installed with red type loctite from the factory..usually requires heat to remove....

Just asking for curiosity....did the broken studs come from the bottom row only?...these would be Dilivar from the factory and steel ones on the top row that usually don't break.....

Wil

ChrisBennet · ChrisBennet's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim2
Since I have never had to deal with a broken head stud I'm not literate with the issue on a first hand basis, but the first thing that came to my mind is a tool as Zeke describes. I frequently make custom tools used in aviation and the concept of an internal extractor (female screw extractor) seems as though it would work.

This will be a limiting factor- What is the smallest diameter of the bore which the head bolt goes through?

Do these always break off mid shaft of the bolt like unclenicks, or do they break off level with the case? Hence what is the longest depth?

How much torque is required to remove the remaining portion of a bolt?

edit, also need to know the diameter of the shank of the bolt?

Jim
79 930 Klunker, Solo I

I've thought about this some too.
The studs I've seen have always broken part way up the shaft.
The hole in the head isn't much bigger than the threads of the stud.

The stud to case junction needs to be heated to disable the thread locker. I'd do this electrically - a welder on low passing the current through the stud ot the case. This would localize the heat to the stud-to-case junction right where you need it without heating up the rest of the case as much.

You can see from the pictures that there just isn't much room in the head or cylinders for a female stud extractor. Maybe you could weld something to the end of the studs?
-Chris

Laneco · 09:31 AM

Okay, you guys are probably going to throw me off the site for saying this but here goes...

When we pulled the engine from Steve's 82 3.0 SC to put in the spyder neither time nor $$ was going to allow anything to be fixed. We weren't terribly concerned about "fixing" anything with the 3.0 as it was a perfectly good reliable daily driver and been been in our posession for 4 or 5 thousand miles. We desperately needed a motor for the spyder (to make the James Dean 50th anniversary event).

When the engine tin/cooler etc was removed....I nearly cried. Two of the head studs fell out on the ground (#3 and #6, side nearest flywheel, bottom side).

Steve said, well we're done. This motor is no good. Alot like you feel right now. I contemplated that statement with the broken studs in my hands. When I got looking at them, I realized that from the condition of the broken ends, these had been bouncing around a really LONG time in this condition. The broken ends were pounded nearly smooth to the touch and having had the misfortune of breaking studs (usually exhaust) I can without question say in my best shade tree mechanic accent that these studs had been broken WAY WAY before I discovered them. Broken on a daily driver. Broken on a car that starts easy, runs smooth, no weird noises no peculiar leaks.

Put the motor in the spyder and then put another 2,000 plus miles on it since that time. As of Friday, the motor is on its way to Colorado (Injection Labs) for an overhaul. All the studs will be replaced. The engine still sealed head/case etc., with zero problems.

Your motor NEEDS fixed. But I'll bet you drove that car right up to the point you found the broken studs and were never the wiser. At this very moment, all across the world, I GUARANTEE there are plenty of 3.0 motors running around with broken studs that their owners are not aware of.

Here's another guarantee. If you continue, it will NOT improve, it will get worse. I cannot say how long before that happens. Maybe tomorrow, maybe six months. If you can't fix it today, begin budgeting for when you can fix it. Hopefully someone here can figure out a way to remove headstuds and replace without teardown (and you will be EVERYONE's hero). As far as finding another 3.0 w/o broken studs, personally, I finding them WITH broken studs on a pretty regular basis. I think you have a good running motor with a history you are sure about. I suggest that you budget for and spend your money on the KNOWN engine rather than rolling the dice on a used engine of the same vintage. Wouldn't you just go nuts if you bought a replacement used engine and two weeks later it fractured a head stud?

angela

davidppp · 01-21-2006, 09:25 AM

Guys, what is the big deal here?

Strip head, heat and remove stsuds replace, rebuoild new gaskets, two days work, 250 bucks parts..

The hard part for most of us is R+R engine..already done..

Or, much better, replace all lower studs, extra 100 bucks..

Or am I missing something?

Kind regards
David

Jim Richards · 01-21-2006, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joeaksa
I would put it back in the car and drive it until you find a good deal on another motor.

JoeA

No need to find another engine that may have its own issues that you find out well after money has changed hands. Just fix it and you'll have a engine that lasts for many years to come. Better the devil you know...

unclenick · 01:40 PM

Well, I have decided to keep my motor as it is clean as a whistle inside, and is a true 68K car so, guess we'll be fixing her. The broken studs are the bottom ones closest to flywheel one per cylinder on the right side. I actually shoved it back in the car and drove it again. Not a sound, no smoke, no leaks nada, nothing! So now begins the gathering of parts to do my motor the right way as I wont half a$$ it, just not me. I am not going to drive the car everyday as now I know its condition but at least if I have to move it around I can under its own power.
I cannot believe someone does not make an extraction tool for the car while the heads are still on but I can see why, little pieces of metal you cannot see might drop and then you have a whole another issue......

And as for the clutch spring.....I NOW NEED A STIFF DRINK.....what a pain in the a$$$ to put back.

Thanks guys for all the insight. Really helped calm me down and make a decision.