Buying car in Germany?

[jhelgesen]

My job will be taking me to Europe several times in the next few years, Germany and Italy. I was wondering, is it still a good deal to buy a used Porsche overseas and ship it back to the US? Looking for a 80 and up targa.

[Wil Ferch]

I was just there for 4 months on a special assignment this past summer....and IMO.... the prices in the classifieds and such were nothing special, and the condition of the cars wee typically a bit softer than in the states ( generalization). The realy nice cars were priced "up there" too....

Maybe K9handler ( "smitty") or GeogeM...regulars in Germany...can chime in too...

Wil

[buster73]

With the current weak $ vs. Euro situation, I don't think you can make a deal, unless you find a rare car you absolutely want to have. I would say that older 911's (>73) in good condition are in gerneral more expensive. You might find good pricing for SC's and Carreras, but they often have higher mileage and are not as well equipped as US cars (e.g. cloth vs. leather...).

[9dreizig]

I work for a German company and get there a few times a year as well. In general for a NEW car you can buy a car here in Dollars for the same amount as you can in Germany for Euros ( in other words, take a car with you and re-patriot it!!). Certain items should be able to be had at a discount, e.g. early turbos with the price of gas there they are not as desireable. Talk to Harald ( Speedster 94 on the board), he deals in used P cars and might be able to find you a deal.

[DaveSwiss911]

I bought my car in Switzerland in 2003 when I lived there. You should check out: http://www.autoscout24.ch

At the time the prices were about CDN$2000 to CDN$5000 cheaper. Also, the Swiss do not particularly like old stuff and have enough money to keep their cars well maintained. I did also look in Germany and the post above is accurate.

At the end of the day I feel that I obtained an excellent 84 Carrera that I could not have obtained in Canada.

Anyhow, it won't hurt to look as Switzerland is between Germany and Italy.

Good luck.

[porkersc]

I got mine from Switzerland and a a couple of pals of mine have Swiss origin cars. Totally agree with the above. The Swiss have very strict regulations on car condition. I have never looked back with mine.

[l_turn9@msn.com]

Very interesting thread. I hope to get to Europe one of these days and driving a Porsche while there has always been a dream of mine. Since it looks like buying a 911 while there isn't a big financial incentive, maybe the cost of shipping my 911 to Europe and back would be practical.

Does anyone know the cost to ship a 911 from a East Coast port to coastal UK or France - and back? Also, what are the dangers doing this? Insurance problems? Is air freight significantly more expensive?

BTW, I'm here from Rennlist - it's lonely over there! Is everyone here?

Larry T (74 911, 67 MGB)

[rexav8r]

I know this may only apply to a few out there but...

If you are buying new & you have any military affiliation, there is a military sales division that can get you a few grand discount. Part of the "trick" as I've been told from friends that have bought cars is that you need to put "XXX" number of miles on it then it can be shipped home as a "used" car v/s "new". Which can save you significant $$.

I haven't done this though.

I agree with the above. I never saw any real KILLER deals either. That Swiss info looks good though, Thanks !

[Wil Ferch]

Larry:
Welcome...I'm a Rennlist refuge too....
- Wil

[9dreizig]

There is still a buy in the US and pick up in Germany to vacation for a week or so program I believve. This is the practical way to do it ( assuming you're going to buy a new car).

[lvporschepilot]

to get a Porsche shipped from Europe is not a cheap deal. You can either have it shipped by airplane or by ship. Getting the car here by ship is undoubtedly cheaper but, it takes a few weeks. Last time I checked, shipping with this method is about the same price as shipping across the US. Budget at least $1200. To have it shipped by airplane is at least 4 times as expensive yet much safer and is better for the car. Anyone have any recent experience with this?? These estimated figures are a little old but were accurate a couple years ago.

good luck , john

[Joeaksa]

I have bought several Porsches here in the states and taken them back to Germany. The selection of older 911's is very poor and you can find a lot more and better over here.

Shipping was easy, get it to a port then on a RORO and pick it up in Bremerhaven in 2-3 weeks. Just make sure you take ANYTHING out of the car as it will be stolen unless its locked up in a container.

Joe A

[k9handler]

the cars here are not that cheap (used) due to the taxes that are applied. Up to 25% will be added (this includes VAT and the used car tax) so what could be listed at a good deal will not be so when all is added up.

Shipping...can be very cost effective if you look for deals.
For example, 3 years ago I shipped my 911 from Cali to Germany for just over $500 with a 200 euro customs fee here in Germany. The trick was to ship the car when someone else really needs something fast and has extra space, my car was in a shared container and the other guy had a much deeper wallet and needed his car in two weeks. My car just shared the container and the price was very good. Another key is to drive your car to the port...inland shipping is where it will cost you.

Hope this helps.

[petevb]

I moved to Germany recently from CA.
As others have said, the change in the exchange rate over the last couple years has made cars over here more expensive by about 20% across the board than those in the US. Further, you don't find nearly as many nice low miles older cars here, due to road salt and the autobahn (meaning everyone uses the cars as intended, and doesn't leave them in the garage).

For these reasons, I think the way to make money is bringing a car *into* Germany by: a) buying a car in the US, b) owning it for at least 6 months, c) bring it over when you move, d) owning it for another year, e) then selling it.
These ownership periods are required to avoid paying the steep VAT tax on the car upon sale, which would wipe out your profit. You'll also need to convert the car to euro spec, which will cost some money, so along with the costs of shipping, etc it only makes sense to do this with a rather expensive car.

Ideal candidates are probably pre-'73s, which are rare and expensive over here due to rust, "gray market" imports, which may not require any modification to sell in Germany, cars like the 993 RS which are not road legal in the US (and were probably brought over when the USD was strong), and a number of American cars. A Z06 goes for almost 90k new here, for instance, meaning with this deal maybe you could drive it for free on the autobahn for year (!), though used low miles cars are probably the way to go. Don't bring modified cars, or you'll need to change them back mostly in order to pass TUV when you sell it.

The risk, of course, is that by the time you are aloud to sell it, the $ to Euro exchange rate has moved back, and you get nothing. So it’s maybe not the safest investment, but it’s perhaps the most fun!

[Ferrariguyma]

Lots of great looking cars. This site certainly is a time killer at the office.

http://www.mobile.de/fahrzeugsuche/

[9dreizig]

"This site certainly is a time killer at the office."
Thanks Andrew I've been looking for something to suplement those slow days on Pelican
T

[buster73]

Probably the most popular car search website in Germany is www.autoscout24.de Always plenty of Porsches to choose from for these long office hours.