Alignment Settings - opinions?

[jet911]

Following are the alignment settings from the print out I received. The car currently pulls to the right.

Front:
Camber = L: .1 deg; R: -.1 deg
Caster = L: 5.6 deg; R: 5.8 deg
Toe = L: .08 in; R: .06 in

Cross Camber: .1 deg
Cross Caster: -.2 deg

Rear
Camber = L: -1 deg; R: -1.2 deg
Toe = L: .15 in; R: .06 in

Are these acceptable and if so, should the car be running straight?

I remember that the alignment guy said something about the caster being set at a maximum (he could not adjust it any further), and it was still out of spec a bit. Don't know what that means.

Javadog took a look at the numbers and gave me some feed back and thinks the car should possibly pull left. I'm stumped here.

Should I have the alignment re-done? I took it to another alignment shop due to the pulling to the right issue and was told it did not need to be re-aligned as it was within spec, and that the issue was the tires (radial pull). The tires were new at the time of the original alignment. I went to the tire dealer and we swapped left/right, no difference, they replaced one front tire, no difference. Could it be something else?

All opinions appreciated!

[wcc]

I'm not an alignment expert by any means. But I have read on here numerous times that if your alignment is good and you don't have wheel and tire issues. That it could be a dragging brake/stuck caliper? I would check that to see if it is your brakes causing the car to pull to one side or another.

[Wil Ferch]

your numbers don't make sense....

If LF camber is +0.1....and RF camber is minus 0.1....the "cross camber ( or difference between the two numbers) would be 0.2. Is RF negative or positive?.

To illustrate....left caster is 5.6...right is 5.8...the "cross caster" is 0.2....that makes sense...

Also...is "toe" toe-in...or toe-out?...you don't say.

Where is "inches" of toe measured....edge of tire...edge of rim?...I hate inches because it brings up this question of "where measured". If it was minutes or degrees of angle..it wouldn't matter and would be perfectly clear.....

Wil

[jet911]

Thanks Wil,
I transfered the numbers from the print out. The printout said nothing about toe-in or out. I agree with you on the cross camber not making sense per the L and R readings. I'll re-check the print out.

I'll go back to the shop and see if they can offer more definition around the findings and confirm toe-in/out.

[masraum]

I'm not an expert either, but I think that .2* differential in caster on the front could be causing the pull.

[masraum]

Another thought, for the amount of rear camber you have you need more front camber. Most people seem to have the front to rear difference such that the rear has approx .5* more camber in the rear which means you would probably want to be at -.5--.7* in the front.

[IROC]

IMHO, your camber is not off enough to cause a pull. If anything it should pull to the left with those numbers (positive camber on the left and negative on the right).

Mike

[Wil Ferch]

Is it "pulling" all the time?... or only when applying the brakes?

It could be any of:
- dragging brake caliper
- old flex brake lines ( internal swelling and not releasing)
- bad "thrust angle" ...alignment again.
- single or multiple bad tires ( internal tread separation)
- worn suspension components that allow "one" alignment setting to be recorded...but it changes while driving.
- other ?

Wil

EDIT- I also note in your other, related post on this matter, that the driver's side front is wearing more on the inside edge....YET...it's this side that has positive camber ( which would suggest wear on the outside edge)....maybe the bearing is "loose" on this side?

[jet911]

Thanks all,
It is pulling right all the time. I let go of the steering wheel on the freeway at 65 - 70 mph, and it will nearly change lanes. I let go a slower speeds and it does the same.

The car has 94K miles on it and is an '86 coupe.

Prior to the alignment I did the following:
Turbo Tie Rods
New Bilstien HDs

Since the alignment I have done the following:
New rubber brake lines
Swapped tires and replaced one in front. The tires are one year old with about 5K miles on them.
Flushed the brake system (Motive power tool)
New rotors, pads, etc.

Maybe it is the wheel bearings. When I replaced the discs, I didn't want to get the washer too tight against the bearing, so I tightended the retaining nut (?) by hand until the washer would bearly slide forward and back then tighted the nut using the allen wrench. However the pull was there prior to replacing the discs. Is there a way to diagnose without taking everything back off (those dust covers are a bear)?

It also seems to pull more when I brake. I was going to rebuild the Calipers this spring. Also, after driving for 30 - 40 minutes, I can touch both discs and neither are hot, nor is one hotter than the other.

It may be nearing the point of taking it to a P-wrech and paying him to make a diagonsis.

[Jeff Alton]

Pulling or drifting? Car could have a sticky caliper or have weight jacked into one corner.....

Cheers

[masraum]

If you changed tires right to left and replaced one then we've more than ruled out a tire and wheel. I still think that the caster could make a difference (not camber). My miata had a slight pull with 4.2* on one side and 4.4* on the other side, then I had it realigned with equal caster side to side and the pull went away. The front end of my miata should weigh pretty close to the same weight as the front of a late SC or 3.2L car.

[vash]

mine is going in tomorrow morning. CB and align. you dont tell the tech what to do, do you? i hope to just tell them my uses and habits and let them do it.

oh wilferch, that calculator was fun. on DA MONEY! love hooke's law. my ride height thing went off without any hitch.

[jet911]

Thanks again!

Steve, good point about the caster, Wil noted it as well. Maybe that is the issue.

vash, when I took it in, I told the tech "I need an alignment to spec."

[masraum]

I'd definitely not go to spec. The Spec that comes on cars like a 911 or a miata isn't geared towards max performance. I'd take some specs in or if I knew that the tech was performance savvy I'd tell them what I do with the car and see what their ideas are.

[450knotOffice]

I'd put money on your caster angle (if I were a bettin' man). Everything else seems to have been mostly ruled out. My alignment guru aligns everything first, takes the car out for a spin, then comes back and fine tunes it for a perfect drive. I believe that once he has all of the angles down perfectly, he corrects a slight "drift" with a caster adjustment and then test drives it again.

Caster is my guess.

[javadog]

Jim,

Has the suspension height been changed without corner-balancing?

JR

[imcarthur]

Just a suggestion from a neophyte . . .

A year ago, while installing a bump- steer kit, I attempted to dial in some toe & gave up (at that time) because the tie rods were being ornery & one didn’t want to budge. So, I ended up with my steering wheel not centered but with equal toe out by 1/16” (sorry for the inches Wil). And the straight tracking the car had was now a wander to the right.

Anyways . . . this spring I got back to it. Centered the wheel with the tie rods & dialed in 0 toe. Now it tracks dead straight once again. Conclusion, what I thought was dead straight with wander wasn’t.

Fwiw

Ian

[Wil Ferch]

Not to worry on the "inches" thing...that'll "work" too...it's just that when people give this value ..it's not a conclusive...accurate...description unless we know "where" the measurement was made. Most use the tire diameter. Fine...then the shop should say this.

Angles is angles.... no confusion...no ambiguity.

I'd also say focus on getting caster equal....but double check toe...target zero or a "pinch" of toe-in ( total).

Wil

[jet911]

Thanks everyone - will take it to a different shop advising of the advice you all have offered!

Thanks again!

[vash]

just dropped it off. told them i track and AX, and he said. great! i am gonna go kinda aggressive. it's just money.