Brake Bleeding Tools

[theclaw]

My wife is looking for ideas for my birthday and I thought a braker bleeder would be a good one. However, I would be interested in your ideas on the best one for the job. I already own a MityVac and think its pretty much junk.

I'm thinking of the Motive brand that Wayne sells

http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/images/drivewerks/PowerBleeder/European.jpg

This product from Phoenix

http://www.phxsyss.com/Bench%20Bleeder.htm

Or these from Griots

http://www.griotsgarage.com/catalog.jsp?L1=L1_2000&L2=L2_2050&SKU=35706

http://www.griotsgarage.com/catalog.jsp?L1=L1_2000&L2=L2_2050&SKU=85700

Any strong opinions either way? If my wife is willing to buy Porsche goodies I'm going to let her!

Jeff

[ghnat]

I have the Motive. I like it...

[anthony]

I love Speed Bleeders. It makes brake bleeding an easy one man job.

[PorscheGuy79]

I think im handicap because I cant get the motive to work right. So I bleed the system with my buddy Greg or my father the old fashioned way. My father has speed bleeders on his car and he does the same job by himself. A good thing to get is a bit of tubing to attach to the nipple and a Gatorade bottle with a hole drilled in the top. As you can tell we like the expensive stuff.

[Jim Sims]

"I think im handicap because I cant get the motive to work right."

Following the instructions on the side of the Motive pressure bleeders usually results in a successful bleeding job. Is it holding pressure during the pressure test before installing brake fluid? If not, find out why. Bleeding a vintage Porsche the old fashioned way can result in damage to the MC seals if you stroke it into normally unused sections of the bore which are likely to be corroded.

If I were putting together a brake bleeding gift package it would consist of the Motive brake bleeder, ATE brake fluid of a color different than what is in the car now), spare rubber bushings for where the reservoir lines enter the MC, spare bleeder valves of each size (front and rear may be different), combination wrenches to fit the hexes on the bleeder valves, new bleeder dust covers and some clear PVC tubing to fit the bleeder nipples.

If the rubber sections of the brake lines haven't been replaced in the last 8 years or so I'd add these and a good metric flare-nut (tube nut) wrench set (Sears sells a nice polished set) to the package.

The above also assumes one has a floor jack, four jack stands, a torque wrench and soft socket to properly lift and support the car and remove and re-tighten the wheel lug nuts.

[PorscheGuy79]

Originally posted by Jim Sims
"I think im handicap because I cant get the motive to work right."

Following the instructions on the side of the Motive pressure bleeders usually results in a successful bleeding job. Is it holding pressure during the pressure test before installing brake fluid? If not, find out why. Bleeding a vintage Porsche the old fashioned way can result in damage to the MC seals if you stroke it into normally unused sections of the bore which are likely to be corroded.

Are you referring to an empty MC bleed? Because at those times I do a gravity bleed to get fluid into the entire system and then bleed it by the pedal. I have bled it by the pedal probably 5 times this year (rebuilt calipers, suspension upgrade, new brake lines, etc have resulted in that many bleed jobs in such a short time) and haven't had any problems. I cant imagine it doing any harm if there is fluid in the system because you are basically moving the MC the same way you would if you were apply the brakes.

[Jim Sims]

"because you are basically moving the MC the same way you would if you were apply the brakes"

Not always; when the system is open (a bleeder valve is open) the system will not go "hydraulically solid" with the MC piston stopping at the usual place but can stroke past the usual stopping point. This normally unused portion of the bore can be corroded and can cut or contaminate seals so they leak. If it seems to go solid during bleeding one is just hitting the end of the bore with the MC piston.

[PorscheGuy79]

Thanks for the explanation Jim, I will try a little harder with the Motive next time.

[theclaw]

Great suggestion on the gift package Jim. yeah I have all of the other goodies and my wrench inventory pretty good. With the Motive, do you have to depressurize it and unscrew the cap to add fluid? What was attractive with the Griots tool was the fact that it sucked the fluid out and you could top off the resevior as you went.

Jeff

[Huh]

I something similar to this but I don't have the automatic fluid filler.

[jlex]

On the Motive system, the fluid is placed inside the big plastic bottle, then pressurized.....fluid flows from inside the pressurized bottle thru the tube & into your reservoir. You shouldn't have to add fluid to the bottle at all during the process. As fluid is used, however, you'll have to pump it back up to re-pressurize it.
Go with the Motive... just make sure you plug up the overflow tube on your reservoir before you start. (I use 2 short dowel rod peices and a C clamp over the tube to close it up) Pump it up w/o the fluid in the bottle first to make sure it's holding pressure properly.
regards,
jlex.

[na2ub]

Am I the only cheapskate with a garden sprayer and rubber hose. Just connect the sprayer hose to the overflow nipple (with a clamp of some sort), leave the lid on, and have at it. Buy the cheapest sprayer you can find (around $14). It has worked fine for about 4 bleed jobs, so far.

Doug

[randywebb]

"Am I the only cheapskate "...

No you aren't!

And even cheaper than us are the Gravity Bleeding Cadre (GBC)...

[wcc]

Originally posted by na2ub
Am I the only cheapskate with a garden sprayer and rubber hose. Just connect the sprayer hose to the overflow nipple (with a clamp of some sort), leave the lid on, and have at it. Buy the cheapest sprayer you can find (around $14). It has worked fine for about 4 bleed jobs, so far.

Doug

Do you have any pics or a link for the sprayer you used? I'd like to see what you are talking about. I've always done it with two people, but this sounds like a good idea to me.

[Blanco]

Originally posted by theclaw

http://www.griotsgarage.com/catalog.jsp?L1=L1_2000&L2=L2_2050&SKU=35706

I think I will put this on my list. I have a compressor so it will be a snap.

You are a lucky man!

[rick-l]

Originally posted by Blanco
I think I will put this on my list. I have a compressor so it will be a snap.

You are a lucky man!

This looks like it works the same as the mighty vac system except the source of vacuum looks to be a venturi instead of a hand pump.

These (and speed-bleeders) all suffer from the common problem that there must be a good seal at the wheel cylinder when the bleed screw is loose. Some people say coat the bleeder with grease or use Teflon tape, inconvenient at best.

The positive pressure systems (old fashioned way or motive prod) don't suffer from this lack of a good seal, in fact that seal is purposely broken.

I have gotten the best results when I use the two man procedure (me & wife).

My opinion would be if the cup in your master cylinder can't travel to the full extents without being damaged there is something wrong with your master cylinder that needs fixing.

[jackb911]

I concur with rick-l that the 2 person system is hard to beat. But when you are doing this job solo, the Motive works great. Just make sure you have the proper amount of fluid in it and make sure the master cylinder doesn't run dry.

Medical oxygen hose with the molded on connector piece is ideal for attaching to the bleeder screw. It snaps on and stays put.

------------------------------------

Jack

'96 993 (p-car #20)

[na2ub]

Bill,

Sorry, no pics. I just picked up the smalles sprayer from Lowe's and pulled the spray nozzle off. The hose that it had was about the correct diameter already, so I just got a pinch clamp from the hardware store to secure it in place (an small hose clamp would probably work to.) Then simply tighten down your fill cap, and pull off the overflow tube on your resevoir. Empty your brake fluid in the sprayer, attach hose to overflow nipple and pressurize (no too much!). Make sure you don't have any leaks at the resevoir.

[911pcars]

$4.00, but it's not much of a birthday present. However, this and a liter of SRF would be nice. Treat your sweetheart to a nice dinner too, just for the thought.



Sherwood

[defcon65]

I've always used the rigged soda bottle-with-tubing setup and the two man bleeding method, it works just fine. I've heard that pressure bleeders can crack older plastic resevoirs or blow out seals if used incorrectly, but I have never used one, so I don't know if this is true.
Incidentally, my home-made bleeding rig was once mistaken by Officer Friendly for a makeshift hookah until I explained how such a device works and pointed out that mine lacked the correct configuration....

True story.

Joe