Can you make a Long hood into a Short Hood?

[cstreit]

So I'm puting the racecar under the knife again and wondering if some better aerodynamics will suit me. I've been thinking about converting to a short-hood look but without one in front of me, I can't really tell if this is doable without major surgery...

Any help here?

[jeff1hughes]

You can change a long hood car into a short hood car. You need fenders and obviously a hood, bumper and signal lights. If it's a racecar can you run fiberglass parts? If so, it should be too bad of a job.

[bigchillcar]

isn't this done all the time? i think it's been a trend for the past several years, backdating to the early look.
ryan

[Jim Richards]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


j/k

[svandamme]

Originally posted by bigchillcar
isn't this done all the time? i think it's been a trend for the past several years, backdating to the early look.
ryan

he's suggesting the reverse procedure , updating an early to a late look

and yeah , it can be done, i've seen early T's with slantnoses, SC turbo look, 964 and even 993 look

i agree with Jim though ... Nooooooo

[thrown_hammer]

Chris,
Even if you don’t do it, pretend you are. That way everyone gets all freaked out and uptight.

[kach22i]

cstreit , you need to clarify if you are talking about your 1970 long hood or not.

Also point out where on the pyramid you are.

http://moto-delta.com/v-web/b2/

[svandamme]

Originally posted by thrown_hammer
Chris,
Even if you don’t do it, pretend you are. That way everyone gets all freaked out and uptight.

i won't freak out and get uptight about it
for every longhood that get's butchered, dies, wrapped around a tree, explodes, parted out or rusts away... the value on mine goes up a bit...

[RarlyL8]

The "updating" conversion was very popular about 10 years or so ago. The most difficult part is the hood latch structural area. Many ways to do it without major surgery. Porsche Doc has probably done a few (if he'll admit to it).
For what it is worth I have never liked the long hood cars. The stubby front end is just plain ugly to me. I had a '73 Widebody that I could not give away 10 years ago because NO ONE wanted that ugly front end. I sold it for a fraction of what I had in it. Now that California smog rules favor the old cars they are popular. Go figure........

[Jim Richards]

Originally posted by kach22i
Also point out where on the pyramid you are.

[thrown_hammer]

Originally posted by svandamme
i won't freak out and get uptight about it
for every longhood that get's butchered, dies, wrapped around a tree, explodes, parted out or rusts away... the value on mine goes up a bit...

Chris,
Even if you don’t do it, pretend you are. That way everyone (except Stijn) gets all freaked out and uptight.

[masraum]

But a more important question, why would you want to.

Actually the early cars were more aerodynamic than the bellows bumpers cars so upgrading would actually be a downgrade.

[cstreit]

Thanks Guys,

I'll talk to PorscheDoc...

Reducing the value? Hmmm... The only thing LEFT from 1970 on the car is the chassis... (at least some of it.) I'd tube-frame it if the rules allow. Yes it's a "S" but it's been a racecar for nearly 20 years and it's never going back.

I'm just all over that pyramid this winter. Flares, some wing, more rubber, and a 3.4L conversion is in the works. Problem is I just started yesterday and there's only 2 months to go...

I 've been thinking about the aero-advantage to the short-hood style, it would be all 'glass as that's what's hanging on every corner now..


STEVE: Is that because of the hood? Or because of the narrow bodies? My front splitter options are limited only to the RSR and IROC look with a longhood...

[masraum]

Well, the bumpers and more specifically the bellows were problems, I believe. I assume there are a bunch of changes, the bumpers and bellows, the flares, etc... But I am 99% certain that I remember reading in Frere that the bellows and bumpers are an aero problem.

[cstreit]

Well I'm not going with the stock look (smile, front strip, signals, etc..). If anything probably the 964ish/later RSR.... SO maybe that will make a difference... Dunno...

[304065]

Chris,

I agree with you-- one thing that MUST be understood from the outset is that it's a race car (albeit with an "S" VIN) that is a tool for winning races and nothing else. Absolutely every permitted modification within the scope and spirit of the rule book MUST be made in order to be competitive. If it would make the car faster to make it look like an East German trabant, so be it.

That being said, I know a couple examples of guys who have gone all the way to 996 bodywork with a BIG decrease in lap times. I don't know whether that is permissible with your sanctioning body, however. Dick Fell, of Northern New Jersey PCA, reported a FOUR SECOND decrease in lap times for his '69 911 when he switched from the old funky RSR bodywork to 996. People kill for four seconds. Kill. Ditto Bill Rudtner. Ask him what he would change if he had his Turbo saga to do over again, he will tell you (may chime in here) that he'd start over with smoother bodywork, "those upright lights are pushing way too much air."

What's the Cd of a longhood or shorthood, like .46? The 996: .30. The 997, .28. Admittedly with the kind of high-pressure inlets you will require for oil cooling you'll never see those kind of numbers, but they are a goal to shoot for, and you can approximate Cd with a data logger and coast-down measurements on a straight road on a windless day.

So: Can you convert, yes. Is it easy, probably, because you are working with fiberglass parts supported by aluminum stringers.

Would I do it? No. I would keep the longhood as it is, maybe revert it back to pure vintage, and find a shorthood tub to work with. They aren't expensive, are slightly stiffer, and haven't had 20 years of fatigue.

Who knows, maybe some Early S purist would pay for the whole thing by buying your 20-year old, rode-hard-and-put-away-wet tub.

Good luck!

[Mike Bonkalski]

If your looking for an aero advantage - go with 993 fenders on the front.

[vesnyder]

Chris - Good article in the British Porsche magazine (forget the name) that documents a guy taking an SC and turning it into a log hood. It was probably about 6 months ago. The most challenging part looked like the front lights. Other than that looked fairly straight forward.

[Jim Richards]

Hey Chris, John C. nailed it...convert Phoebe into and E. German Trabant.

OK, OK. John C. nailed it...convert Phoebe into a modern 911 (996/7) bodied racecar.

[einreb]

Originally posted by Mike Bonkalski
If your looking for an aero advantage - go with 993 fenders on the front.

Werd up.

2 months? Nice.

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