I'm standing on the brink ready to dive into the Turbo pool...Help me! LONG

[NY65912]

I'm standing on the edge of a cliff, looking into the abyss of turbocharging. I've got the '85 Turbolook, she's black and beautiful. I mean I REALLY love this car! She's got 70K miles and is really perfect with the exception of the standard front end road rash. I love this car so much I don't dare take her out for DE's only for cruising with the wife or kids. Oh yeah I thrash her around as much as I can, but I am in no way abusive.

So I buy a nice '80 SC to tear into and make a DE / AX car into. I'm not really worried about the paint or the looks like I am with the M491. The car is light and getting lighter everyday. 3.0 with SSI's Monty, MSD and of course PMO's I like this car, but not in love (yet).

So the real question.......I've got my eye on the 3.2 Protomotive that one of Pelican heads has for sale and I hear it caling my name all day and all night long.

I bought the M491 because it had all the turbo running gear and of course fantastic brakes, but yet the more docile N/A engine. I figured there would be less maintenance issues and generally less costly to run.

The Question that I need your learned opinions on..........

1. Forget the Proto kit, leave the M491 N/A and enjoy as is?, (not a bad alternative) and beat the crap out of the SC?

2. Go for broke, slap on that puppy and live life on the edge? And if so I am I only asking for trouble down the road with a turbo on a car with 9.5 to 1 CR? I do not want to open her up.

3. Sell both cars and buy a very clean Turbo with realitivley low milage that has been pampered?, (pay a premium)

4. Sell both cars add some $$$ and but a RUF turbo of the same era?

5. Sell both cars shivel up and die?

I must qualify all of this..........I AM A SICK MAN. THIS IS ALL I THINK ABOUT..PORSCHES, PORSCHES, PORSCHES!

Your opinions please, be harsh, be cruel, be nice most importantly be honest...........I can take it!

[charleskieffner]

this sounds like a really long weekend in the woods with lots of beer and your racing buddies to help you make this decision! remember though be it cars or women.................2 is always better than 1. when one doesnt want to be fun................more than likely the other will be in the mood! LOL!

[PorscheGuy79]

Its bad, but I think we can patch you up.

IMO you have some great points, and frankly I have driven my '79SC and my fathers '77 3.2 and I cant imagine more enjoyment besides what these two heavily modified N/A DE cars have to offer but I will be opened minded about this.

Originally posted by NY65912
1. Forget the Proto kit, leave the M491 N/A and enjoy as is?, (not a bad alternative) and beat the crap out of the SC?

Its not a bad idea, I mean the SC can be a fun car but like I say with girlfriends...if you aint having fun right now what makes you think it will change?

2. Go for broke, slap on that puppy and live life on the edge? And if so I am I only asking for trouble down the road with a turbo on a car with 9.5 to 1 CR? I do not want to open her up.

I dont know about trouble but there are some absolutely insane 3.2 Turbo conversions out there that are fast enough to make any godfearing man wet himself. Though this sounds like a fun idea you probably, at some point, want to hit the track so you will have to look deep inside and see if you can live with possibly damaging a car that you have licked clean since birth (not literally but you get the idea).

3. Sell both cars and buy a very clean Turbo with realitivley low milage that has been pampered?, (pay a premium)

A sane and logical idea but do you need a pampered car? Why not search out a nice clean well modified Turbo track car at the right price? That answer is kind of loose figuring the amount you are willing to spend.

4. Sell both cars add some $$$ and but a RUF turbo of the same era?

Same idea as I stated above, great choice as well.

5. Sell both cars shivel up and die?

Just imagine your wife here: "Oh honey you wont die if you sell them both" But really, you will die and everyone here who has turned the key on a 911 knows this.

Hope that helps.

[charleskieffner]

i think you should join the "DO IT NOW FOUNDATION" before wife has a clue what the hell your evil and really cool thoughts are! HANG THE EXPENSE!

[Noah930]

Clearly, option 1. Your 85 M491 car sounds pretty clean and unmolested. All that originality (and your preservation efforts) will go to crap if you mod it out. Plus, you'll have a car that you still are afraid to push, because it's been your baby for so long. Same with option #3, but even more so--that'll be a real garage queen. Option 4 is similar in concept to numbers 2 & 3. And option 5 just sucks; what are you, crazy?

[JeremyD]

Take your 3.2 to the track - it will love you for it. It's a car - it's a Porsche - they love the track... ever take a dog off the leash at a park and let them run? that's what a porsche is like at the track - it will put a smile on both your faces.

[petrolblue83911]

Keep the m491 as it is,-and enjoy it!, keep modifying the sc to make it what you want it to be, make it wild and beat on it. Personally I'm not a huge turbo fan, at least pre 993TT, but that's just me, no doubt you can make a sickly fast 3.2 or similar but I think that for fun on back roads, a well tuned and modified 3.0 is tons of fun, will likely last longer and will be less $ to set up. Plus since you're wife has already allowed you to have the two you have now, you won't be entering new territory!-just hide the recipts...

[RarlyL8]

Do you really expect us to NOT push you off that cliff?

[Tripster]

Just my opinion,,,
Either leave the 3.2 or go to a 3.6 V-ram, I just went thru a conversion with my wide body car, took out a nice 3.2 and replaced it with a 3.3 Turbo. I know the 3.2 Promotive is a different engine than the 3.3, but after alot of doing and thinking, I don't think you could do better than the V-ram for power and reliability. And again, only my opinion.

[bigrubberjeep]

I drive my M491 at the track and I cant get enough of it, it's not fully modified but it's not my retirement accoutn either so if I lose a bit of value so what, I also enjoyed it 4 times the loss of value.

A M491 is a great track car IMO because it gives you the security of great brakes and the wider track. This is even more so for a begineer. If after running a few DE's and you have gone as fast as you can but feel you need more, then go FORCED AIR.

I would sell the SC since it's just money waiting to be put in to a sick M491. Besides, your M491 will always be an M491 wich is a standard option for a "racing" model back in the day so the more "race" preped it gets the closer you get to what the M491 stands for. Super Sport

[charlesbahn]

I've been very very happy with my 3.2 with Protomotive staqe 1 with intercooler upgrade. Ive had no mechanical problems and the car is completely dependable. I'm sure david.avery will chime in too. My install:
Protomotive Stage ! Install (Part 1)

[Fl Ted]

It's the same as in boating! No one boat will be the best for every occasion! Your big bluewater rig will not serve as the ski boat for the kids. The ski boat won't work when all the relatives want to cruise to the fancy restaruant!
You said you LOVED the M491. So leave it as is. Build your track car and make it as wild as you want, but try to keep it street legal . Track events are few and far between, so when you must have a "twisty fix", take the "beater" out and flog it!!!
It's like having a wife for the "lovey" part, and a mistress for the "on the edge" part! The best of both worlds!!!
And , you can tell the wife your'e spending all the money on the race car so you'll be too broke to ever consider having the "mistress"

[NY65912]

Yep, I knew that this post would really clarify my issues

The really good thing is that the wife is extremely cool with all this nonsense. After 25 years of marriage and 2 years of going out together she has come to "understand" that I am troubled guy when it comes to these things.

But after spending a lot of time on this bbs in the last five years well....I'm a light weight compared to some of you guys.

I admit to being a junkie, I know that I'll only get worse if I go to boost!

I'm watching my son mod his 1.8T New Beetle. After a large downpipe, 2 1/2 SS exhaust, real cold air intake, a larger turbo inlet pipe and a GIAC chip I am very impressed by the power this little engine produces. He's at the 200 hp & 190 ft/lbs level. So I've gotten some education is boost....and it's fun!

BigRubber....I just feel guilty in changing such a really nice car as the M491, she's great as is.

Thanks for the opinions and support, I'm kinda leaning toward staying status quo for now, but I am a very spontaneous person and just might pull the trigger.

[greglepore]

Merv's kit is a very nice deal at that price, the only reason I didn't pull the trigger was the need to relocate the a/c condensor, kind of a b/s reason not to buy it but it was the tipping point, plus it was more money then that it is now.

My take is that these kits are fine on a street car, but I'd be leary on a car that sees significant track time, as they're likely to be on the boost for extended periods.

[NY65912]

Thanks Greg, I'll not track the M491. I mean afterall, the kit is reversable...right! I'm still going to build the SC into my DE car, I've already got the 930 brake kit.

I'm not concerned about the AC either.

[RideShoot&Drink]

Originally posted by NY65912
Thanks Greg, I'll not track the M491. I mean afterall, the kit is reversable...right! I'm still going to build the SC into my DE car, I've already got the 930 brake kit.

There you go...you just answered your own question...DO NOT MOD YOUR M491. Leave it as is. If for some reason you decide to sell it, you'll get higher $$$$ than for moded one, especially if it was turboed !!!

Since you already messing with your SC, why not turbo that one? Or sell your SC motor and get 3.3. Pricewise it should be close to your investment in Protomotive kit.

On a different note, I'll say that after selling my Carrera (SSI's, sports muffler, chip and yada yada yada) and getting into one heavily mutated SC with Turbo motor, I'd be very hard pressed to go back. Turbo rush gets very addictive.

The picture of the mutant below...Good Luck!

[WydRyd]

I don't want to be seen as biased here because I'm selling a kit, but here are my views on this:

1. I have a M491 Cab too with all the great Turbo body, brakes etc. I knew I was going to keep my car for a verrrry long time, but I wasn't impressed with the stock power levels, so I decided to force feed the sucker. Have never looked back

2. A low boost intercooled kit with a static boost setting will not make the car unreliable. "Mike the mechanic" on this board had the exact same bolt-on kit as mine on his '86 Carrera and he tracked his car for 2 years without any mechanical issues. When he finally decided to go inside the engine to fit 930 P&C's, he found the 3.2 Carrera P&C's were perfect. No sign of detonation whatsoever and his car was spanked on the weekend and track events and 1/4 mile drag strips

3. The kit is reversible since it's all bolt-on, so if you do decide to sell the car, you can put all the original stuff back on and it'll be stock.

4. A low boost setup at 9.5:1 C/R is awesome. The car drives like a normal Carrera off boost and when the boost hits, all hell breaks loose. It's a blast to drive! I have never heard any negative experiences from other 3.2 turbo converts.

Whether you buy my kit or not, you'll love a blown 3.2 Carrera. They are truely monstrous

[Duckworth]

What about a different approach altogether. Why take this approach you have to beat the bejesus out of either the SC or the '85 ?

Here's something you may loathe but others would not:

Drop both motors and pump some C-notes into them. Go Motec with the SC and different cam. Go with 3.4 L pistons and cylinders into the '85. If desired, take to a machine shop to twinplug the 491 and you will be waaaaaay ahead of the pack.

Think simplicity. Take your time....Visit a nitromethane dragstrip and leave the G- forces to them. Each cylinder in their cars get roughly 600 H.power. (8 cyl motors).

Phil
___________

'74 fiat 128
'80 928
'82 Targa - sold

[tsuter]

Less than 300HP in a Porsche is for weenies.

And my god! The kid with a Garrett chip and a downpipe and his Beetle is faster than the Porsche. Or at least it could be. Wait'll he wants to go BT!! Can you spell GT30??

Ask me how I know?

Muhahahaha!

[charlesbahn]

Go ahead and jump- you'll be pleasantly surprised at how soft the landing is.