Front Spoiler....dumb question but...

1982911sc · 03-12-2006, 04:51 PM

Probably really dumb question...but my car (pictured here) does not have a front spoiler...Correct? It has what I guess I would call the lower front valence...would I see any gains from adding a front spoiler? The car does get skittish at over 115 or so on the highway, is this a worthwhile upgrade? Thanks! Almost seems like I would be adding a spoiler to a spoiler

stormmaster · stormmaster's Garage

only if you install one at the other end too

ZOA NOM · ZOA NOM's Garage

Not true. If you add a tail, the chin spoiler is necessary. You can add the chin spoiler can be added without a tail. Mine immediately stabilized the front end at high speed.

JonT · 03-12-2006, 06:13 PM

I have the same car and did notice some added stability at speeds over 100 when I added the front spoiler which extends down below the front valence. Porsche recommends a rear spoiler to go with the front to balance the downforce created front and rear.

ja78911sc · 03-12-2006, 06:22 PM

JonT,
You never mentioned this when you sold me your chin spoiler! Now I need a rear spoiler!

ZOA NOM · ZOA NOM's Garage

The spoilers act to reduce lift at each end of the car. If you go without one of the two, it should be the rear. The rear spoiler is not required with a chin spoiler. The car will be more stable in the rear with a chin spoiler, but unless you are racing the car on a track, it isn't necessary. You shouldn't be anywhere near those speeds on the street.

ikarcuaso · 03-12-2006, 07:14 PM

Click my signature to see what your car looks like with a chin spoiler (just excuse the dirt).

JonT · 03-12-2006, 07:22 PM

ja78911sc--the downforce imbalance really only is an issue when speeds get over 100mph so you should be fine.

ZOA NOM · ZOA NOM's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by JonT
ja78911sc--the downforce imbalance really only is an issue when speeds get over 100mph so you should be fine.

And the issue is that the rear will lift more in a turn, causing more oversteer. Straight-line, and gentle turns will be more stable with the front planted firmly. If you are taking turns on the street over 100, then you should be worried about crash survivability, not front end lift.

rgrimm · rgrimm's Garage

I was just reading Mark Haab's Authenticity Series book on the 74-89. He indicated that Porsche allowed the front spoiler only as an option (as my 84 came). But you could not get the rear only...the rear only came with the front included.

Makes sense, I guess. You certainly wouldn't want a car that's light at the front to become even lighter at speed. But the front works just fine for anything other than serious high-speed track use.

1982911sc · 03-12-2006, 08:28 PM

Thanks for the look Ika....I can remember my dad had a 1977 BMW 530i..he had a wicked front spoiler on the car and nothing in the back...Alot of cars are sold this way, the wings really only come into play for some way high speeds I would imagine.

RaceProEngineer · 03-12-2006, 09:04 PM

1982911sc,

In my opinion you are thinking about this in exactly the right way:

"The car does get skittish at over 115 or so . . ." , and one way to solve that problem is to eliminate some of the air being forced under your car at high speed. An air dam (spoiler) will do that, and so will lowering the car on its suspension, sometimes adding more rake, and a combination of all three will be even more effective.

Once the front end is more stable at high speeds, then you can turn attention to balancing the rear, if necessary, with a spoiler or wing.

Incidentally (a matter of symantics), adding a front or rear spoiler does not, in and of itself, create any downforce, but it will reduce lift (air being forced under the car), which is about the best we can hope for in the older 911es; and it will reduce some form drag. One needs a true wing in the rear, dive planes in the front, and "tunnels" under the car to actually product downforce.

You are heading in the right direction . . .

gduke · 03-12-2006, 09:32 PM

The chin spoiler will help the cars front end stay planted by reducing lift. When I bought my car it only had a rear spoiler...at the speeds you mentioned it was a bit scary. So, along w/ my 3.6l conversion I added a 930s spoiler for narrow bodied cars to reduce lift and also, needed it to add a front pil cooler. And what a difference it made. The front end lift was reduced quite a bit. Some of the other items you might consider that I added which contributed to better handling at higher speeds are; a strut brace, new suspenion bushings(Elephant Racing), ball joints, shocks, and turbo tie rods.

They all work together, making your car handle better.

Also, I feel that a splitter might be benificial at higher speeds w/ my car. If I ever open it up. But, that may never hapen, though.

randywebb · 03-13-2006, 02:28 PM

let's say, "create any [net] downforce..."

Geronimo '74 · 03-13-2006, 10:36 PM

Get that spoiler, feel the difference.
I have the rear spoiler too (whale) and it's put to good use because even though some think it is not done, I do reach speeds of 100+mph on a daily basis. Stop the frowning guys, it's not like I do this in a city center near a school or something. Open roads only, went up to 140 mph yesterday, hmmmm 140...

Wil Ferch · 03-14-2006, 05:00 AM

I find it rather ironic that Porsche supposedly says this vs that as it relates to front/rear aero aids.... but consider this....

With the advent of the 964 series, with their movable rear wings...notice that the RS America of 1993 had a Carrera-like rear wing.... and yep...nothing changed in the front relative to the "standard" cars....

hmmm......

Wil

livi · 03-14-2006, 05:03 AM

And whats with doing 115 on the highway anyway ?

moneymanager · 03-14-2006, 07:09 AM

Read Paul Freyre...who explains lift at the front and rear and the factory's efforts with chin spoilers, ducktails and later more sophisticated devices at the rear to cope. It is very clear that the two devices work together to enhance stability...and working with one but not the other may lead to odd effects. On an early car there are circumstances where a front spoiler with nothing at the rear produces a terribly unstable experience at much over 80. My impression is that the reverse is not so bad, but it certainly isn't optimal.

juanbenae · juanbenae's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Wil Ferch
With the advent of the 964 series, with their movable rear wings...notice that the RS America of 1993 had a Carrera-like rear wing.... and yep...nothing changed in the front relative to the "standard" cars....
Wil

i have recently put a 964 deck on my car without a chin spoiler and have been wondering if the points raised here about having any sort of wing in the rear requires a chin unit were relevant with the 964 deck. i had noticed that the 964's did have a different valence, but nothing resembling a chin spoiler. hmm?

i did not install the deck for down force, but to get more air over the motor on track days. the deck has helped in cooling thus far in regular sorts of driving not even deployed. no track duty yet with the wing, but i am looking forward to later this month getting to try it out. with only a handful of track days under my belt my thinking was that after i become more advanced it might be more of an issue. i will be curious if i notice in change in handling from last year with no and this year with.

Wil Ferch · 03-14-2006, 08:26 AM

Toby:

Please tell me of a front valance difference in 964's...between the cars using a fixed RS rear spoiler ( Carrera-style) and those using a motorized rear spoiler ....

964 fronts were certainly different than the earlier cars... if that's what you mean..but I don't think there were differences within the 964 series.

..??????

- Wil