Easy way to ID a respray?

Plecostomus · 03-30-2006, 03:24 PM

I'm going to go look at an SC this weekend and have hopes that this will be THE one. I asked the owner this week if the car had been repainted. He said he had never done it, except for the fuchs and the inner plastic ring associated with the headlights. He says he doesn't know if the previous owner did either (Original owner had it for 9 years and put 51k miles on it; This 2nd owner has put 9k miles on it in the past 15 years). I am worried that there might have been a respray because the paint looks incredible in the pictures. Might there be a fast and easy way for a Porsche/ newbie to reveal if there has been a respray done on the car? I'm probably going to pay too much for the car and I want the paint to be original.
Thanks if you can help!

Curt

CarreraS2 · 03-30-2006, 03:34 PM

you can almost always find the signs of a repaint if you look closely at the seams, door jambs, rubber pieces around the windshield, door handles, sunroof, other glass, underneath at the suspension pieces and around the rockers, in the engine compartment and trunk, and all the various edges and transitions on the car.

It's usually easy to tell because it only takes one tiny bit of overspray, masking line, etc. to give it away.

Also, a 60K Porsche is going to have some chips on the hood and front bumper. It's impossible to have traveled that many miles and not gotten some.

You could also get a paint thickness measurer, and check the thickness of the paint on various places over the car. If it's consistent on all panels, that's a good sign. You probably could also find what the factory thickness spec is, and compare to that.

On the other hand, if (1) you see not one spec of evidence of a repaint after a very careful examination, and (2) you believe the current owner when he says it hasn't been painted (and thus the paint on the car has been on there at least 15+ years), I wouldn't worry about the paint too much.

Plecostomus · 03-30-2006, 03:39 PM

Thanks SoCal. That helps alot. I forgot to mention that the current owner had all the windows replaced. Now I'm getting even more worried. I didn't bother asking him why either (stupid me!). Thanks again
Curt

rrsrsr · 03-30-2006, 03:43 PM

Replacing all the windows is a little bizarre. The windshield, sure its going to have some chips after awhile.

Side & rear windows though- why replace them?

Plecostomus · 03-30-2006, 03:48 PM

A question I will be asking him this weekend! Thanks for your response.

cali74 · 03-30-2006, 03:49 PM

as someone who did a color change I can give you my experience as to where the painter might have left clues as to a color change. Some people on the board are painters themselves and would have much more experience than I, but if I were looking for a color change, or respray I'd look in a bunch of places...

note: it will be easier to discover a color change than just a respray if he resprayed in the same color.

All the outer surfaces should be the new color - that you can already see - finding evidence of another color/old paint will depend on how thoroughly the car was taken apart when the painting was done.

Easiest place is the wheel well - painter might not have painted in there if it was dirty/on wheels when the paint was done. You could roll under the car with goggles/glasses and a flashlight and screwdriver. Scrape off the dirt somewhere - if the color is different under the dirt but on top of the wrinkly undercoating, then BAM you found a color change.

If the car was rotisseried and painted then they painted the undercoating so the first method won't find anything. That leaves the interior and nookes and crannies for paint to have been missed. Under the carpeting inside the car would have the original color hidden under glue remnants. You could pull some up carefully and look in a discrete location.

Of course then there's the engine compartment and front trunk. Even if the car was rotisseried there could be some remnants of the original paint in the nookes and crannies in there. Hard to look when the engine and gas tank/hvac are installed but up by the dash would be harder to paint in the front trunk. Also the nooks behind the gas tank, and by the rear shock tower cross-member and engine lid-puller-cable-guide tube.

I don't think you could really know yourself the whole story of the car unless you dipped/media blasted it all - or went through every panel by hand stripping the paint/undercoat (my recent experience)

Zeke · 03-30-2006, 03:50 PM

Take it to a bodyshop.

cali74 · 03-30-2006, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zeke
Take it to a bodyshop.

oh yeah...shoulda thought of that...good call :-)

DougM · 03-30-2006, 04:00 PM

Run your finger along the fender lips. They should be painted, but rough/bumpy. I guess the factory used to paint over some undercoat on them or something. If it is smooth like the exterior, that portion has probaly been repaired. The rough area generally gets sanded down prior to a repaint.

Plecostomus · 03-30-2006, 04:29 PM

Thank you very much guys. I'm writing down everything you say! I really appreciate it

DW SD · 03-30-2006, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DougM
Run your finger along the fender lips. They should be painted, but rough/bumpy. I guess the factory used to paint over some undercoat on them or something. If it is smooth like the exterior, that portion has probaly been repaired. The rough area generally gets sanded down prior to a repaint.

Yes, I use a deriviative of this great trick! It works, at least for newer cars. All door edges, hood edges, etc will commonly be bumpy because of overspray and smooth like body paint if painted from the factory. Edges are so narrow that sanding is tough, unless stripped to bare metal, which often doesn't happen in accident repair. It is easy to burn through paint in one spot, so the edges are often overlooked. With new cars and no color change, it is a sure fire means of finding a panel which was resprayed. I've looked at used cars plenty and often you can't see that a panel was fixed, but can find it with this trick.

Doug

dsintrepid · 03-30-2006, 05:15 PM

I ran a body shop for 5 years & now inspect damaged cars. Good info here - look for mask lines in jambs - will usually be obvious if not a complete terdown to repaint & often times paint will be dry on the panel edges due to poor overlap when spraying - will look like an orange peel on the panel edges especially near bumpers & headlamp rings. Mine has it just below the convertible top on the quarters. Also if all the glass has been replaced look if the side moldings are new too - often replaced during a repaint - all new trim coupled with the glass replacement would be a good but not certain hint that it has been repainted.

gr8fl4porsche · gr8fl4porsche's Garage

Other than emotional joy - exactly what is the big deal about original paint - these are not rare cars. They were and still are produced in the thousands. The big $ cars at Barrett Jackson are all repainted and many are not even real production cars. I just don't get it. I understand a poor repaint, but if its good then it should increase value - not decrease.

For sale - 1952 Ranch, 4 bedroom, 2 bath, 2 car garage - wood siding - ORIGINAL PAINT!!!!!!!! You would never value an old paint job on a house.

Plecostomus · 03-30-2006, 05:43 PM

Thanks DS and Randy.

I guess if its a good repaint I won't mind too bad..... Perhaps it should be very good!

gr8fl4porsche · gr8fl4porsche's Garage

A very good repaint probably cost someone around 5 grand.

yasir · 03-30-2006, 06:31 PM

If i was you i would rather invest or borrow a paint meter be done with it..

dsintrepid · 03-30-2006, 06:41 PM

I agree with gr8 - if it is a good paint job no worries. 23 year old paint is going to be deteriated and such unless extremely well taken care of. Like I said my car has been repainted and I still bought it - in fact one fender does not match due to a seperate repair, but it didn't bother me as it can be corrected.

SLO-BOB · 03-30-2006, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SoCal911SC
Original paint, among other things, is a guarantee that the car has never been wrecked or rusted.

You hit the nail on the head.

I've been hunting for another 911 and my first criteria is original paint. A photo documented rottisserie respray would be a close second , but I probably wouldn't want to spend the kind of $$ a car like that would fetch. In that case the paint is probably better than original.

Plecostomus · 03-31-2006, 02:20 PM

thanks again guys.

Curt

Zeke · 03-31-2006, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sebring77
You hit the nail on the head.

I've been hunting for another 911 and my first criteria is original paint. A photo documented rottisserie respray would be a close second , but I probably wouldn't want to spend the kind of $$ a car like that would fetch. In that case the paint is probably better than original.

I bought a 356 B coupe from some idiot that showed me a whole album of pics like that. Paint was very, very nice.....except for one small crack (crack??) down by the front of the lower rear quarter panel. He had an explanation for that, too.

Well, later on, I decided to sell the car as I wasn't enjoying it at all. I thought I'd fix that little part and low and behold, 3/16th of bondo under there with rust under that.

So, I guess I'd have to agree, if you ever find original paint, you know what you're buying.