Slight Crunch/grind 1st to 2nd shift sometimes 3rd when cold?

[twilightcall]

My 82 911 SC (92K miles) when cold makes a slight crunch going into second and sometimes third gear when cold. It is almost a slight grind but it is more of a quick crunch. Once it warms up it doesn't do it at all even on downshifts. I read through the archives that many cars have 2nd gear issues. The one thing that made me want to ask the question is that this only happens when cold.
Does this issue sound like the typical 2nd gear issue? My plan is to change the gear oil to Swepco 201. Is there anything else I should look for. Thanks.

[Motorhead-45]

Sounds pretty typical for a high mileage transmission....synchro bands are probably worn with 92k on the clock. If you haven't changed the transmission fluid and you don't know when it was last changed, the fluid change should be your first thing done to see what, if any improvement you get. It's entirely possible that fresh fluid will help and there are folks on this board who claim Swepco works miracles. Change the fluid and give it a few miles for everything to circulate. If fresh fluid doesn't help then you are probably looking at the beginning of a gradual degradation of a tired transmission.

[jester911]

I don't know how old your clutch/throwout bearing is but my car was similar to yours and after replacing mine these things got much better. I am not saying perfect but much less than before.
My car has 84k on it and there is no telling if the clutch had ever been replaced.

[York]

Are you shifting slowly, especially from first to second? On 1st to 2nd shift, I move into neutral, put slight pressure toward second (feel resistance), pause very briefly, then shift into second. Works great.

[twilightcall]

No I am not pausing in between. I will try that. I usually just go from 1st to 2nd fairly quickly. I guess because whenever I start out from a standstill and shift to second people are always on my tail (tailgating) so I think that is why I have been shifting faster than I should. Thanks for the tip.

[Rick V]

Try the swepco first. I am one of the folks who love this stuff. My82 SC was having some shifting issues (or I was) I changed the fluid and replaced the shifter bushings and I only have problems going into second when I pull out of first too hard before the clutch pedal is on the stop. I have 112 on the clock. These trans are funny but they work. I can't shift as fast in the SC as I can in my BMW but there is the apple/orange comparison.

[danl]

What they said...

To prioritize it for you in dollars and effort:

1. Shift deliberately - This really helps you enjoy the car, don't ask it to do what it is not good at... The 915 trans is quirky but gets familiar like an old pair of shoes if you learn it's way.

2. Swepco.

3. Re-bush all the linkages (kits available from Pelican)

4. New Clutch

Only then start considering some sort of Trans rebuild.

[ruf-porsche]

Originally posted by twilightcall
No I am not pausing in between. I will try that. I usually just go from 1st to 2nd fairly quickly.

Our PORSCHE maybe great cars, but they are not dragsters. You can't speed shift a 915 trans or a 901. Don't know about a G50.

Want to speed shift, buy a rice burner.

[rnln]

Originally posted by ruf-porsche
Want to speed shift, buy a rice burner.

No wonder war every corner of the world.

[Wayne 962]

Swepco - good cheap alternative to a rebuild...

http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/car_care/Swepco.htm

-Wayne

[twilightcall]

Thanks for the tips. I will get swepco and keep everyone updated.
BTW, I am not interested in ricers. I am just very surprised by this. I am not interested in dragsters. However, I am surprised that I can't shift a 911 as fast as I can my Ferraris. They are not dragsters by an stretch either.

[Motorhead-45]

If you don't already have one, you are going to need a 17mm hex socket or allen wrench to get that drain plug out. Be sure to loosen the fill plug on the side of the transmission before removing the drain plug. Many people find out that these plugs haven't been out in a very long time and are challenged to get both loose. The point being is that if you can't get the fill plug out you are never going to be able to refill the transmission if you get the drain plug out...unless of course you turn your car upside down. Remove that fill plug first!

I would also drive the car a bit to get things warmed up and to help fluids flow. I think it helps promote getting most of the fluid out quicker. Of course that has a negative effect of having everything underneath the car being rather toasty while you are under there!

Things to order....

1 Gallon of Swepco
1 Hand-pump for the Swepco
1 17mm hex socket

Best of luck on this and I suspect you'll find shifting to be better than before with the fresh fluid change but still lacking overall when compared to other cars you may have driven. Your next step will be to replace the shifter bushings...rather inexpensive and unless you know their current condition, I'd recommend you go ahead and add those to your Swepco order. Bushings don't really help with the "crunch" you described but certainly help remove some of the overall slop and lack of precision in the linkage.

[twilightcall]

Thanks. I appreciate the info. I will get a new set of bushings? Do they come in a kit?
Very good point about removing the fill plug first.
I will let you know how it all turns out. Thanks Again.

[Motorhead-45]

Yes the bushings do come in a kit. Check out the following link...


http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/911M/POR_911M_uprc91_pg29.htm#item

and this tech article on improving your shifting...

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/911_shifting_improvements/911_shifting_improvements.htm

[twilightcall]

Thanks for the links. I will order a set and check the adjustment. Thanks Again.

[Motorhead-45]

Glad to be of assistance. I was about 6 months ago where you are at today so most of this is still fresh in my head. The round bushing which looks sort of like a rubber grommet in that kit is the one you are most likely to find either completely gone or completely worn out. Use caution if you decide to replace the shift coupler bushings...more than one person has broken the coupler while trying to press the pin out, myself included. That coupler is a $92.75 part if you break it. Ironically I was originally replacing the bushings because ithey had some forward/backward slop and I discovered after buying a new replacement coupler that the new one had almost the identical amount of slop....it's supposed to have a bit of front to back play.

There is one other area that you might want to check while you are in there...the bottom of the transmission has an inspection plate held on by 4 nuts. Under that plate is a fork bolted to the inside of the plate. Often this fork becomes loose and is also a source of overall "slop" in the alignment of everything. It would be very easy to give it a check once you drain the transmission fluid. You would of course need a new gasket part #91530322500

[ruf-porsche]

Originally posted by rnln
No wonder war every corner of the world.

There a "CONFLICT" in every corner of the world because we are looking for WMD, even though we have the biggest arsenal of WMD in the world.

[jester911]

Why don't you guys save your political commentary for off topic or political blogs.

I am here to learn about porsches etc., not someones personal opinion about whatever.

[diabolos88]

exactly

[twilightcall]

OK guys. I went out today and took my time shifting and I still have a slight crunch from first to second. Once it was warm it stopped completely and shifted without any problems.
One thing I found strange was that downshifting even when cold from 3rd to 2nd didn't cause any crunch or grind. Just upshifts.

Anyway, I am going to change the gear oil in the next few days. I just wanted to share some new info. Thanks.