Need help! I have no idea where to start. . .

redcoupe86 · 03:52 PM

The last few days i've started the car in the moringing its been acting up. It revs up to 1200 rpm for a second then drops to just over a thousand. By the time i get down the steet a few hundred feet its at 800 rpm or so and rough, rpm kinda of fluctuating up and down rapidly and inconsistantly - almost like it was starting to loose fuel kinda feeling. Once warmed up the car seemed to run fine, but somthing still was off and I wasn't able to put my finger on it. It seemed a litte underpowered. Also, the car use to start right up. Now it starts kinda like a train starting. Meaning it kinda builds revs up.

Today, same scenario, except when I get in my car after work and start the car the rpm bounce up and down between 1800 rpm and 1000 rpm crazy like, for like 10 seconds. I had to give it gas to sort of settle it out. But as soon as i started pulling out the car began bucking, like it was starved for fuel and then all of a sudden the fuel cut in, or like the ignition was cutting out and back in again. This would happen inbetween each gear change just as I began to give it gas. The only thing I could do was rev it between changes to stop it from bucking. Once on the road, I would try to acclerate, I would push the gas and it would accerate for a split second then nothing, the car would just coast for a second or two, then all of a sudden it would go again. It would cruise fine once going but the craziest thing was the Tach. It was fine at idle, but as soon as i gave it gas the rpm read about double what it should - even cruising. Second gear at about 20 mph read at over 4000 rpm. So i babied it to the hair salon where i had my appointment. 45 min. later i go outside and the car is back to what it was several days ago.

I have no idea. It feel like an ignition problem. I would have thougt fuel filter, but the rpm thing makes me thing otherwise.

Any help guys

WydRyd · 03-28-2006, 03:58 PM

1. Check all your vacuum lines behind the throttle body and to the fuel pressure regulator (left side fuel rail) and fuel pressure damper (right side fuel rail).

2. Check to make sure you have no vacuum leaks around the 90 degree elbow that interfaces your air flow meter to your throttle body. Also check and tighten your clamps which joins the two intake plenums together.

3. Remove and inspect/clean out your idle control valve.

4. Inspect your spark plugs, distributor cap and rotor and replace if required.

5. Check your fuel pressure. Should be at around 36-38psi at idle. If it's fluctuating a lot, you may have a blocked fuel filter or a stuffed regulator or damper.

6. OH, stick your head near the throttle and check to see if you can hear the idle position microswitch engage when you release the throttle (engine off of course).

Just a few things to get you started.

asphaltgambler · 03-28-2006, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by redcoupe86
................... So i babied it to the hair salon where i had my appointment...............????????????????????( [/B]

Man, I dunno but I think this is the problem!!

redcoupe86 · 03-28-2006, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by asphaltgambler
Man, I dunno but I think this is the problem!!

If you saw the girl that cut my hair, you might be tempted to make and appointment

redcoupe86 · 03-28-2006, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WydRyd
1. Check all your vacuum lines behind the throttle body and to the fuel pressure regulator (left side fuel rail) and fuel pressure damper (right side fuel rail).

2. Check to make sure you have no vacuum leaks around the 90 degree elbow that interfaces your air flow meter to your throttle body. Also check and tighten your clamps which joins the two intake plenums together.

3. Remove and inspect/clean out your idle control valve.

4. Inspect your spark plugs, distributor cap and rotor and replace if required.

5. Check your fuel pressure. Should be at around 36-38psi at idle. If it's fluctuating a lot, you may have a blocked fuel filter or a stuffed regulator or damper.

6. OH, stick your head near the throttle and check to see if you can hear the idle position microswitch engage when you release the throttle (engine off of course).

Just a few things to get you started.

1. Vacuum lines are ok
2. same as 1.
3. Will, do, but i can hear it humming.
4.just replaced all wires and plugs a 100 miles or so. Check rotor and cap at that time too.
5. I do need to do this. Will do.
6. I have and I do.

I don't think its mechanical in nature. Like I said the engine ran fine after i stopped the car and started it again. But the thing that make me think its electrical is the tach and the way it was acting. It seems if it was mechanical in nature the problem would be so intermittant. However I could be wrong. Would a bad DME be a suspect here?

rcaradimos · 03-28-2006, 04:34 PM

CHT sensor?

redcoupe86 · 03-28-2006, 06:19 PM

might anybody else have any info they can share?

ianc · 03-28-2006, 06:55 PM

Well, there's always the reviled DME relay...

ianc

redcoupe86 · 03-28-2006, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ianc
Well, there's always the reviled DME relay...

ianc

yeah, just ordered one - even if its not the problem, its good to have one. From the reading ive been doing it seems that the DME thing is an all or nothing thing, meaning your car runs or dont'.

The thing I cant figure out is what would make the tach act so crazy? If it wasn't for that bit of info I would think its a fuel issue or ignition issue.

Walko · Walko's Garage

From the systems described could be many things

But I would hazard a guess that these might be at fault
1) faulty DME
2) flywheel sensors
3) Mass airflow meter

Michael

pmajka · 03-28-2006, 07:16 PM

i vote for maf....if u r handy with a volt meter ... maybe someone can post link for maf diagnosing.

rcecale · rcecale's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Walko
From the systems described could be many things

But I would hazard a guess that these might be at fault
1) faulty DME
2) flywheel sensors
3) Mass airflow meter

Michael

Gonna have to go with Michael on this one. My guess would be the DME or the MAF Sensor. Click here to see why.

Randy

ianc · 10:04 PM

Quote:

From the reading ive been doing it seems that the DME thing is an all or nothing thing, meaning your car runs or dont'.

Actually, from what I've read, the DME relay can indeed be an intermittent problem. You'll soon find out however, if you've ordered another.

Quote:

Mass airflow meter

Just as a point of reference, the standard 'barn door' air box on the 84-88 Carreras is not a 'mass air flow' sensor. It has a flapper valve inside which measures air volume. There is a built-in temp sensor, which could be faulty (unlikely), and is not replaceable (new airbox). These two measurements, taken together, allow a calculation of the air's mass, but it is not measured directly like the later 'hot-wire' MAF systems.

Randy, from what you've posted before, I believe you have one of these fitted as an upgrade.

rcaradimos posted to check the Cylinder Head Temp sensor. The original design has two wires and depends on grounding through the head, which is unreliable. A faulty CHT sensor will give the wrong mixture and make the car run like crap throughout the range if it malfunctions.

My sense, from an attempted distillation of your problems, is that your car is having trouble dealing with throttle. It bucks and cuts in and out when you try to accelerate, but runs OK at steady state. Start times are of course affected.

My first guess at this is a vacuum leak. You won't be metering fuel for the extra air, and if the throttle switch is closed, the DME will try to compensate for low RPM in various ways.

Check the vacuum connections to the pressure regulator and dampener on the front of the fuel rails. Granted a bad connection to the regulator would give worse performance at idle than open throttle, check it anyway, and at its other end where it joins the throttle body. There is a 'Y' connection there which can be flakey.

ianc

redcoupe86 · 03-29-2006, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ianc
Actually, from what I've read, the DME relay can indeed be an intermittent problem. You'll soon find out however, if you've ordered another.

Just as a point of reference, the standard 'barn door' air box on the 84-88 Carreras is not a 'mass air flow' sensor. It has a flapper valve inside which measures air volume. There is a built-in temp sensor, which could be faulty (unlikely), and is not replaceable (new airbox). These two measurements, taken together, allow a calculation of the air's mass, but it is not measured directly like the later 'hot-wire' MAF systems.

Randy, from what you've posted before, I believe you have one of these fitted as an upgrade.

rcaradimos posted to check the Cylinder Head Temp sensor. The original design has two wires and depends on grounding through the head, which is unreliable. A faulty CHT sensor will give the wrong mixture and make the car run like crap throughout the range if it malfunctions.

My sense, from an attempted distillation of your problems, is that your car is having trouble dealing with throttle. It bucks and cuts in and out when you try to accelerate, but runs OK at steady state. Start times are of course affected.

My first guess at this is a vacuum leak. You won't be metering fuel for the extra air, and if the throttle switch is closed, the DME will try to compensate for low RPM in various ways.

Check the vacuum connections to the pressure regulator and dampener on the front of the fuel rails. Granted a bad connection to the regulator would give worse performance at idle than open throttle, check it anyway, and at its other end where it joins the throttle body. There is a 'Y' connection there which can be flakey.

ianc

Thanks everybody for your comments.

Ianc: I will certainly look into these vacuum lines. But I'd like to follow up with a few comments / thoughts I had last night thinking about this. It seems what is happening is that the car is either getting zero fuel to all 6 cylinders or the spark is cutting out completely by the way it feels. I'll push the pedal and its like the car died, then all of a sudden, bam, acceleration. Maybe this is a MAF failure, but if it was wouldn't it be "broke" all the time? Remember, when I got back in my car it ran fine. A question I have about fuel pressure on a fuel injected car is if you have pressure loss would the car just completely cut our or would it act like its struggling to run?

Would a bad coil be a culprit to concider here?

I don't know how my tach issue feeds into this. Somehow i feel its connected since it did what it did while the car was running bad. What sensor gives the tach its actual signal to work?

Thanks again for all the help

ianc · 03-29-2006, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Would a bad coil be a culprit to concider here?

I suppose it's possible. The crazy behaviour of the tach makes me think it's ignition related rather than fuel, since I believe (not sure of this, I'd have to check the Bentley), that the tach gets its signal from the ECU. How are the grounds on the LH intake manifold looking? Have you done a visual survey of electrical connections throughout the engine compartment and elsewhere?

ianc

redcoupe86 · 03-29-2006, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ianc
I suppose it's possible. The crazy behaviour of the tach makes me think it's ignition related rather than fuel, since I believe (not sure of this, I'd have to check the Bentley), that the tach gets its signal from the ECU. How are the grounds on the LH intake manifold looking? Have you done a visual survey of electrical connections throughout the engine compartment and elsewhere?

ianc

I've only had a brief look since this started yesterday. However, the grounds (and im assuming the one you can see on the intake runners on the left) seem solid enough. I'm going to start going though it tonight. It just such a vague thing to me Im not sure where to start. Im guessing I'll start with the easy to see and test stuff first like vacuum and wiring. It definately seems ignition oriented to me too.

Do you think that this could be an ECU thing? And how do you test it?

Miguel Antonett · 03-29-2006, 08:25 AM

Similar situation occurred to me a while ago, after putting "bad" fuel in the middle of nowhere... - no choice. The fuel distributor gummed up and the plunger did not float as it should creating a weird uncontrolable low RPM's issue. Took it apart, cleaned it and bingo the problem went away.

ianc · 03-29-2006, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Do you think that this could be an ECU thing?

Yes, I suppose it's certainly possible, although from what I understand, outright failures of the ECU are far less common than electrical connection or component failure issues.

Quote:

And how do you test it?

By swapping in a known good one?

ianc

pmajka · 03-29-2006, 08:40 AM

Id take it to your local P-car Mech.

I went exactly through what you went through. problem was intermittant at best. THis is what I did.

1. Bad fuel, no
2. bad coil, no
3. bad vac, no
4. bad dme regulator, no

Took to mechanic, and he fount to be MAF like barn door thing. He stated they wear out and and when they start to open , the go OPENLOOP causing a lean condition and then you cant get rpms up.
This is just my problem and might not be yours.
So, if ya try 1 - 4 and it dont work, you can always get a new Barn door Maf. Not cheap.

redcoupe86 · 03-29-2006, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pmajka
Id take it to your local P-car Mech.

There in lies the rub. There are no good P-car mechanics where I live, the nearest would be about 2 hours away. We have a shop that works on European cars, but they do not specialize in them.

Could a bad "barn door" MAF be intermittant?

I guess Im in for one hell of a learning experience with this electrical stuff cause I just don't get electrical at all. It seem strait forward enough to test stuff. I'll need to go out and get a decent digital meter and just give the ole go.

Ianc: you said the DME could be intermittant, did you mean the car can be running while the DME is having a problem, or did you mean it works one day and the car is fine and the next day not at all. In otherwords, can a bad DME cause the car to have iginition issues as i've desribed but not shut the car down totally?