Health Warning on Flood cars and parts

[H2OThrottles]

I was on eBay last night and found several 911's that were "Flood" as in Katrina, cars that are being parted out, then today I stumbled across this news article, and thought I would pass it on, take it for what it's worth.
http://www.motorage.com/motorage/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=310515

[Grady Clay]

This is a very worthwhile link. Everyone should read it. It is important in its own right and has wider application for PPI.

Best,
Grady

[bell]

scary stuff......especially if you work on cars for a living.

[randywebb]

Hmmm... they don't say exactly what is involved except that it is likely bacterial. They bacteria should die pretty quickly when dried out & exposed to sunlight. Heavy metals (see bleow) will last forever.

BTW I got a glancing, abrasive head wound in NOLA during Mardi Gras (not acohol or drug induced...) in a flood zone -- 3 days later, I am a scientific seminar listening to them tell me what's in the dust left behind by the flood - lots of Arsenic & Hg....

[wm711]

if i can buy a 3.6 for 3500...im all over it.

[H2OThrottles]

randywebb, I agree, but I figured I would pass the info on anyway, maybe could have something to do with the bacteria being rehydrated.
BTW, I'm sure that I'm not the only kid that played with Hg(Mercury), nowadays they would send in a HAZMAT team and comdem the area.
It still was a good read that makes you be a little more careful.

[randywebb]

Absolutely - you were right to post it.

[Eagledriver]

Looks like a hoax to me. Sepsis is from a bacterial infection in the blood. I'm sure there are many kinds of bacteria that can cause it and they are in many places including cars. It doesn't matter if the car was in a flood or not. As far as heavy metals go the flood water is a very unlikely source.

-Andy

[Dueller]

Not an MD, PhD, or scientist, but I have seen some of the cars coming out if the Katrina aftermath. I went down 3 weeks post-Katrina to help a friend rescuse what was once a pristine 55 Chevy resto-rod.

Now I've acquired flood salvaged vehicles in the past, but this car was downright scary and unlike anything I've seen or smelled before. It was 10 blocks from the coastline and was apparently completely submerged in the storm surge for a brief period of time. It was covered with both a foul, greasy residue on all non-poiurous surfaces. Pourous surfaces such as interior panels, seats, etc were growing a thick blackish green mold. We completely steam pressure washed it and threw away all fabric materials and the damned thing still reeked with an indescribable stench.

He settled with his insurance carrier and sold it to some collector for parts.

That being said, you cannot imagine the carnage of Katrina...the media coverage doesn't even come close to the total devastation down there.

[randywebb]

Andy, those comments are very misplaced. The flood flooded out all the sewage treatment plants and landfills - hence the high levels of bacteria. Whether they survive and how long is a different matter.

Your second assertion re heavy metals is also plain wrong - sample data show very high levels of Arsenic and Mercury and rel. high levels of other metals. A close friend of mine is a research chemist at the National Water Quality Labs and worked out some of the analytical methodology. In addition, I've seen the data from other scientists. EPA's data are obtained in a forensic certified manner -- a sample is signed for by everyone who handles it, and surveillance is used to ensure against tampering. In addition, community groups collected their own samples and sent them to ind. labs for testing. These chemicals are of unknown origin but are likely from all the pesticides that were flushed out of storage (snail killer for example) during the flood, plus contaminated landfills that were inundated.

I agree with the last poster - the media reports cannot convery the pure hell that people went thru and are going thru. You will not see the devastated areas on your regualr tourist romps. All those areas lie along the river and are thus on a natural levee with no flooding. If you go where people used to live, then you see what looks worse than the fire bombing of Dresden.

A friend of mine worked there (he's a nurse) right afterwards - what he saw gave him serious nightmares and PTSD - he cannot bring himself to go back and his family roots are deeper there than mine are.

[qcwang]

Thank you for posting. Very important info, but don't let it strike panic.

I would advise to take the info from the article with a grain of salt.
Although developing sepsis from small cuts can occur, it is not that common. The article claims that infection originated from the cut. If really so, that firefighter must really have had lots of denial. Over the 6 days, the finger would have become really sore, red, swollen, and very painful with maybe with pus from the wound. His arm would have then been very sore and swollen too before he became septic and died. As a firefighter, I would suspect he would have sought medical attention before all of this.

If any of you do cut yourselves working on your car, do wash with soap and water. Bad bacteria will probably be killed, if not, it will have been washed from your wound and down the drain. Also cover with a band aid to prevent anything else getting into the wound. Also, give your immune system credit. We get many tiny cuts all the time that we forget or don't notice. Our immune systems take care of it and allow us to go on. Of course sometimes it can't, but that's where medical attention comes into play.

If you show up at your doctor's office asymptomatic other than the cut demanding a blood test, it most likely will not be that helpful. If one was aymptomatic other than the cut, the CBC and blood cultures will most likely be negative. If the person really was septic, a doctor would not need those labs to make that initial diagnosis. Those labs would help guide treatment after sepsis diagnosis was made.

Lastly, there must be about a zillion-billion tiny cuts from all of the victims cleaning out not only their cars, but their homes. They must be careful too, but I am not aware of a new virulent strain of bacteria that is causing an epidemic there.

Sorry for the long read, but just wanted to give my input about being careful without causing panic.

Take care!!

[randywebb]

Good advice.

asymptomatic = showing no symptoms

CBC = complete blood count - gives a profile of what's there - if a lot of "white" blood cells are found, then the body's immune has likely detected an intruder and activated responses - i.e. you have some sort of infection.

I'll add that if you ever see long red lines radiating away from a wound get thee to a clinic.

I'd expect that E. coli were the most likely bacteria involved in any reports of wound infection. Of course, not all E. coli are created equal, and there may be some with strong mojo, voodoo, and/or gris-gris....

There should be a stream of medical papers coming out on effects from the flooding in the future.

[PorscheGuy79]

Quincy, thanks for the straight facts, you seem to know what you are talking about.

[lateapex911]

Interesting reding...and I suspect it's a bit more educational than what I would find on the Chevy truck forum!

[Wayne 962]

Indeed, interesting reading. I too would think that any bacteria would quickly die out once the moist conditions didn't exist any more. But, I'm not a doctor or a biologist - I just don't know.

I do cut myself all the time on my car, but I typically don't worry about it too much. I figure that my car is not a great place for bacteria to live - my bathroom is probably 100,000 times more populated. But again, I don't know...

-Wayne

[JeffO]

something I googled: "Bacteria's age can vary from a few hours to a few days. After that
the cell either divides and has become two new
individuals, or it degenerates and dies. An exception
are bacteria that can build spores. These are
fastidious 'mini-cells' that form when the conditions
do not favor growth. They have a very low metabolism
(compare this to hibernation) but they can come back
to life if the conditions improve. Spores can remain
viable for long periods, months to years. Some
bacterial species, like Bacillus anthracis (causing
Anthrax) can build spores that survive tens of years"

[qcwang]

Originally posted by PorscheGuy79
Quincy, thanks for the straight facts, you seem to know what you are talking about.

Thanks, I try.
I am a physician in Family Practice and Sports Medicine for my day job and weekend warrior Porsche mechanic (or hack actually), but I am far from an expert at anything!

Sorry, I didn't say I worked in the medical field, but I just wanted to explain things the way I saw it without creating too much fear.

Oh I did forget to say, to make sure your tetanus shot has been updated. Roughly every 7-10 yrs. Cases very few ( I have never seen one) but it is still out there.

Very interesting article, I am curious on what specifically happened to the firefighter. In a way I am hoping it was some weird one in a million infection that could not be cured, but I feel bad in that most likely it was something that could have been treated.