Distributer question. [now with pics]
 

Hey guys,

I have done a search but couldn't find the answer I needed so I was hoping you chaps could help.

I was trying to change the rotor arm on my 3.2 85 Carerra engine and found the rotor to be stuck solid. Anyway I gave it some firmer pressure and the spindle thingy that the rotor sits on came away in my hand, with the rotor arm still attached :eek:

Anyway I managed to WD40 and gently prise the arm off of the spindle clean it and put a fresh new rotor on it.

I found that the spindle has some kind of plastic foot :confused: ( I apologise if I am losing you I am finding hard to describe) with two plastic tabs that point downwards. It seems that simply slotting it back where it should go looked ok and fine.
However if you tug on it it will come away again.

Also I found a tiny little spring sitting free in the body of the distributer. It must of come away when I yanked the spindle thingy off.. It was about 1cm in length and a few millimeters in width. I can't obviously see where this little spring locates in the body of the distributer.

Questions :)

1. Have I broken the distributer and can it be fixed?

2. How do I locate the spindle back on properly and make certain that the orientation is correct?

3. Where the heck does that little spring thingy go? :confused:

I have looked in my Bently Manual and the Haynes one and also both of Waynes books and nothing shows what the dizzy should look like inside or how to repair it.

Please help.

Al

I found this buddy :)

looks like there should be 2 springs, items 8 & 9, i'm probably toally wrong but they appear to attach to those 2 nipples things that are underneath the plate at the bottom of the cam (item 10, the bit that came off with the rotor) and it would appear that the other ends of the springs connect to the two weights in there somehow (i'm guessing underneath the weights :confused: )

hopefully someone wil chime in and explain how they attach and how to orientate the cam again with the rotor facing the right way

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1147427656.jpg

Hmm I think we are close but no cigar as yet. That dizzy looks really early to the 85 Carerra one.

Here are some pics...

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...1/ef09b5f5.jpg

you can see the spindle or sleave and the tiny spring too.


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...8/ef09b5df.jpg

Here you can see the central shaft/spindle is still in there and that the sleave slips over it.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...a/ef09b5c5.jpg


Can any of you guys shed any further light on this issue I have :confused:

What does no one know anything about this!!!!??? Not even a guess?

I need help chaps. :(

That spring goes right in der. The other matter is not as easy to rectify. Tomorrow you can work on it again. Want it like new, send it off to get rebuilt.

Who performs service on your car?

Regards,

Err I perform the servicing on my car. Apart from the valve clearences I pretty confident in doing it. Its pretty easy really, but that darn rotor was stuck.
I think if I can fix it myself then why send it away to have a silly ass spring attached. I was just hoping the guys on here would be able to suss it out and have me back on the streets of London.

I just can't believe that all the knowledgable guys on here are silent. Pelican is an oracle of knowledge... oh well.

I would appriciate it if somebody could look into there 3.2 carerra dizzy and try to see where the spring or springs locate.

:)

KillerDynoSoar,

Alright, I'll be the bad guy. My mother taught me that if I didn't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all.

That's the nastiest distributor that I have ever seen. It must have stopped advancing around the Mesozoic Age. I'd pull the thing out and clean it up if you aren't going to send it in to someone. The advance weights must be clean, lubricated, and free to move. The springs are the advance weight springs - there should be 2 of them - where's the other one? The clip holding everything together must have disintegrated after turning to dust from corrosion. Be careful when you pull the distributor that everything comes out of the engine, and that parts don't fall down the hole. The ignition is the brains behind your engine, and must be maintained. With a real distributor in there you will not recognize the way your car will run. You might need another distributor to cannibalize for parts. If you get this fixed right, you will love the results.

TrannySourceRex

Walt... thanks for the honest advice. I'll pull the dizzy tomorrow and have a go at cleaning it up. Then I'll take it along to a 911 workshop for them to look it over. I am hoping that its not beyond repair. I wonder where I can pick up spring from? They may have a junker laying about.

My engine and all associated parts all need a thorough clean. I am slowly working through the car and leaving all the parts I touch like new.
It will get there.

:)

HI check your other posting

regards mike

DynoSoar,

Sorry if I was too harsh. The two kidney shaped pieces in the bottom of the distributor are the advance weights. When the distributor turns, they are pushed out by centrifugal force. The springs (#8 and #9 on the diagram sent by Gilbert) help pull them back in when the distributor slows back down. The cam (#10, and the part you photographed on the box with the rotor) sits down in there and attaches to the center shaft. The advance weights push on the cam part of #10 and rotate it relative to the center shaft. The cam part should attach to the center shaft in a way that allows it to rotate only about 30 deg relative to the center shaft. One end of one of the springs goes over one post on the cam part, and the other end goes over a post on a plate just under the advance weights.

When you pull the distributor, make sure the center shaft comes out with it. There may not be anything attaching it to the distributor anymore. The reason you can't attach the cam part now may be because the center shaft has dropped down into the motor slightly. Don't let it fall the rest of the way down in there.

The weights need to be cleaned and lubricated so that they can move with very little resistance. You'll need to find the parts that go between the cam part and the rotor - a washer and clip I think. Looking at another distributor of the same type will help you understand what you are missing.

This will be a good project.

The TrannySource

I didn't notice in the postings but I believe that the clip that Walter_Middie is referring to is a "C" shaped clip that fits down inside the metal shaft that was pulled out of the distributor. If you were to pull off the rotor and look down into the shaft you should notice a felt piece that covers the clip. This clip is what retains the shaft in place, is tricky to remove and requires picks that resemble dental tools.

Rex what is best product to use to lubricate in there, as preventative maintenance. When I rebuilt my top end, I did nothing to the distributor, and she is running nice, but want to change the cap and rotorthis summer, and clean up inside there.

MBEngineering: Mike thanks for your offer, I'd tried calling but you were engaged and now its just ringing. I'll try later.

JGalt: Thanks for that buddy, the felt piece is still present and I think that the C clip is still there as now the cam shaft has slipped nicely over the centre shaft and is locked into place. I guess to get it back out I'll need to take the C clip off somehow.

The TrannySource: (Sorry is it Rex or Walter?)
A little harsh, but the truth hurts. Anyway I can say that all of that gunk on the dizzy has been spotlessley cleaned off. All thats in there now are nice shiney parts that have been lubed up really nice.

Ok so I didn't need to actually remove the Dizzy as I was bale to clean it all up while is was in place. The Cam shaft and both springs ( I found the other one) have been all put back correctly.
However the engine won't fire. Its definatly something up with the dizzy.

I have noticed that the shaft of the dizzy has a verticle movement of about 10mm. That sucker really does move up and down the centre shaft alot. From my and Gilbert's (he came over to help me out) best guess this doesn't seem right. Also could it be that the rotor is now sitting too low because somehow the centre shaft has moved down too much?
I must be missing a spacer or bush to control this movement... ?

Any idea's what I am missing or what I can do to rectify this?

Dyno,

That vertical movement doesn't seen right. I'm concerned that you didn't take the distributor out. It's really easy. Just turn the motor over until Z1 is straight up......but without the rotor attached you won't know if you are on #1 firing or #4. I'm thinking that your rotor is not attached correctly to the center shaft. With the dist cap off, when you crank over the engine, does the rotor turn? I'd go through the trouble to find where #1 is TDC (the piston is all the way up, or both intake and exhaust valve rocker arms are slack), the engine is at Z1, and pull the distributor out so you can get a good look at it.

Hmmn Yes it could be that the motor is lined up for number #4 cylinder. However the rotor is moving inside the dizzy. Could I have possibly put the cam on 180 degree's in the wrong way???

The rotor is moving freely in the engine. I am finding it hard to see where Z1 is written on the crankshaft pulley on my motor so I lined up the crankshaft pully to what I thought is number #1 and the rotor is pointing at the notch in the rim of the dizzy.
However if I have got it wrong then its actually TDC for #4 right?

Once I have the TDC position on #1 then I can remove the dizzy and take it apart.

Dyno,

I think you're on the right track now.

Just an update... I found the Z1 marking on the pulley with the aid of a torch. The rotor was indeed pointing at #4 and NOT #1.

I have removed the dizzy and given it a through clean and now its all shiney and bright. The internals are clean too.

Now the dizzy shaft is fine and has very little movement. The movement I was detecting was the cam itself. It wasn't located on the central shaft correctly because the washer and c-clip were both missing. To tell you the truth I don't think they were on there at the start. I can find no trace of them anywhere in or around my Garage floor or in the engine bay.

Ok so the plan is to find a washer or C-clip that will work with this dizzy or find another way to locate that sucker positivly. Its been suggested to me to use a grub screw... drill a small hole in the side of the cam and locate the screw al la SC dizzy.

Hmmn ... anyway when I put it back I'll double check Z1 and then also confirm that #1 intake valve is slack. That way i'll know its right... then its a simple matter of slotting the dizzy back and the engine should fire.

:)

Anythoughts on the missing C-Clip is much appriciated.. whats the best way to fix or mod the cam so it locates securely?

I think you should definitely use the c clip, anything else might cause problems. I just tore mine apart recently and had it rebuilt. Are you sure the c clip isn't lodged somewhere on the bottom end of the distributor it could cause problems later. Also there are some thin washers on mine that were chewed up and had to be replaced.
Just my two cents I hope it helps.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1148144696.jpg

HI have a close look in the end of the shaft for a circlip slot, as the 3.2 diss' i have hear is fixed with a screw! and if so PM me with ADD and i will send one down.

regards mike

Al

You have a PM

VicSmileWavy

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1148151666.gif