key-out power

tedder · tedder's Garage

With my key out of the ignition, I can still open/close the power windows and the sunroof, but the radio does not work.

Is this typical?

Rot 911 · 05-30-2006, 05:33 AM

You should only have power to the windows and sunroof when you first turn off the ignition, but prior to opening the doors. Once you open the door you should lose the residual power. It is a convenience feature.

AvonGil · 05-30-2006, 05:40 AM

same here. I have an 88, it used to work as described by Kurt, but for some reason they are now always on.

Wil Ferch · 05-30-2006, 06:28 AM

Big problem, then... you have an "always energized" pw relay. Without a battery tender, you'll have a flat battery in no time. Besides....there is something wrong, and was not intended to operate this way.

The PW or Power sunroof should continue to function after the car was shut off but you didn't open/close the door. As soon as you open the door ( and re-close), it should deactivate the relay...and you shouldn't be able to operate the windows or sunroof.

This is often a sign of a bad "plunger" switch that operates the interior dome light...the little button switch near the door jamb. If you "do" replace it...be careful..it has a habit of going "ZWifft"...right back into the hole it came out of....and now you got a big fishing expedition in front of you....

It's all been posted before and is in the archives....

Wil

rgrimm · rgrimm's Garage

Anyone know off the top of their head when Porsche incorporated this convenience feature? My 84 doesn't work this way--I've put the key back in the ignition numerous times to shut a window or the sunroof.

And if it was not a part of the 84's electrical system, has anyone tried to fit the appropriate relay to an earlier car?

Wil Ferch · 05-30-2006, 09:17 AM

I believe 84's and even SC's had this feature...its been posted before but the only oddity seems to be that it is indeed a USA feature...but I'm not 100% convinced it was a ROW feature....

Wil

Mysterytrain · 05-30-2006, 12:01 PM

Hmmm, I saw a circuit somewhere that showed the 'convenience' relay being active when the door was opened. This might have been a version for late SC's and early Carrera's. The purpose was to allow you to close the windows without the key in the ignition. I wouldn't doubt that this version was changed a few times and was improved to a more modern approach especially with keyless entry.

Rick964 · 05-30-2006, 01:26 PM

Ok, I am having the same problem. I know that the door pluger switches are both working fine because the interior lights go on and off correctly when opening and closing the door. Where else should I look to solve this? Is their a relay that could be bad (stuck closed)?

tedder · tedder's Garage

So in my case, I can certainly open the door, get out, close it, return later to open it and roll up the windows.

My battery does tend to get low after ~10-12 days if not on the charger and the interior lights behave properly (therefore the door plungers are working)

So, to echo the previous poster, where do we look next?

Wil Ferch · 05-31-2006, 04:53 AM

I would check the ( apparently functioning) door jamb switches....BOTH sides...and then look at the factory wiring schematic to find the relay. Maybe simplest approach is to temporarily R&R the relay with another known good one..and see what happens. If that doesn't work....do circuit troubleshooting in the sytematic and classical way to find the culprit.

- Wil

Mysterytrain · 05-31-2006, 04:58 AM

Wil may have a better handle on which years did what. I've been collecting parts to convert my crank windows to power. One of the harnesses that I picked up had an addition relay socket which really confused me. After some poking around online and on the PET CD I saw that the additional relay was tied to the drivers door ground. The harness is shown on the 84/86 PET part number 911-612-147-01 its listed as a relay harness. From the drawing it appears the relay is mounted behind the instrument cluster.

Wil Ferch · 05-31-2006, 05:13 AM

IIRC...I believe that location is correct....but only from memory. Best to consult a wiring diagram.

Wil

Rick964 · 05-31-2006, 09:01 AM

I pulled the relay out and I still have power at the window switches, so there must be some funny wiring going on here. Today I will pull the fues panel off and look at some wiring that I can behnd it that looks questionable, maybe the relay has been shorted across, although this does not explain the sunroof. I know that the ignition switch is good and not looking like it is always on because if it were then the radio and a/c fan would blow at all times.

Rick964 · 05-31-2006, 01:03 PM

I found a jumper wire in the fuse panel that was providing constant power to the window fuse, thus bypassing the relay. I have not figured out what is the cause of the sunroof problem but I do know that the fuse panel is bypassed because the sunroof works with the fuse pulled. I need to get better wiring diagram, especially for the back of the ignition switch to trace this one down.

Wil Ferch · 05-31-2006, 01:32 PM

hmmm.... whenever I hear "Porsche" and either "no fuse" or "by-passed" fuse used together in one sentence..... I shudder......

Wil

Rick964 · 06-01-2006, 10:58 AM

I could not trace down the sunroof power lead, there is too much running under the dash to locate where the current lead is going. So to fix the problem I rewired power to the sunroof switch directly from the fuse panel as it should be. Now I have ignition switched power and the appropriate 25a fuse in place. I just cut off and taped up the original power connector at the switch since I do not know where it is going or what it is connected to.

Wil Ferch · 06-01-2006, 05:35 PM

more info here--->

power window electrical questions

- Wil

rnln · 06-01-2006, 08:50 PM

I have the same problem and YES, the door switches's wire are cut off before I bought the car. I tried to dig in there to see any cut off wires laying around the area but couldn't. Anyone know the where should I look into to find the wire which should be connected to the switches?
Thanks.