Bilstein front inserts - three questions
 

Just replaced rears and I'm doing the fronts now. I have three questions about installing the Bilstein inserts into Boge strut housings:
1. Is it necessary to empty the oil in the strut housing and clean it out before installing with new oil (ATF?)
2. Can these be installed without removing the strut housing?
3. What wrench or tool is used to remove and tighten the large threaded nut at the top of the new insert?

Thanks, Joe

1. Some Boge strut assemblies have sealed inserts, some have inserts that use the housing itself as the damper body for the oil, seals, diaphragms, little springs, washers,.......etc. that all comprise the damper portion of the strut. That being said, you will have to empty some if your struts are of the type which use the housing as the damper body.

Question. Why install new oil? I know it's an old racer's trick to use oil or coolant as a means to transfer heat from the damper to the housing for better cooling. I think it's just more trouble than it's worth and can be messy. Just my opinion.

2. Yes. It's good to have a helper counterhold the strut body while you loosen the collar nut that holds the damper in place. Pipe wrench on collar nut and strap wrench (or another pipe wrench) on the strut body works well.

3. The new inserts are supposed to come with a "specialty" wrench that you use to install the new Bilstein collar nuts. Seems more often than not, that wrench is absent from your front shock purchase. It looks like this:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1149440891.jpg

Again, a pipe wrench will suffice to tighten in a pinch. But it is good to have the proper tool since the torque spec is 95 +,- 7 lb-ft. Better to be a little tight than loose. Example: A friend tightened his Konis with a hammer and punch when the special pin wrench wasn't available. Nut eventually came loose and made some loud clunking noises. Could have done some major damage to the strut or threads had we not found the problem the day before the 1st driver's ed. event of the year. :eek:

Make sure you torque these down good when you are installing the new inserts. For a few weeks my car was making a 'clunking' noise when going over speed bumps or rough patches of road so I took the wheel off to have a look. It turned out to be a loose insert retaining nut and I was actually able to remove it by hand. This was shortly after purchasing the car so I didn't install the inserts and I don't know who did. In my case there weren't any marks on the nut indicating a punch or pipe wrench had been used either.

Needless to say, I got one of the special wrenches and torqued them down to spec and there hasn't been any clunking since. Make sure you get it right or it WILL come loose. I think you can install the inserts without removing the strut but you need to be careful with your brake lines and you will have to compress the insert by hand to get it to clear the fender. That is not fun.

Good luck,
Bob

It looks like my inserts were shipped without the specialty wrench. Would the tool kit spanner for the fan belt nut work? Seems to be the same principal. Also, can the flat washer that's bent against the top nut be re-used? The Bilstein 14-language 'instruction booklet' says no, but they neglected to supply me with a new one.

Thanks for the replies, Joe

Sorry to butt in, but I have recently purchased (from a fellow Pelicanite) a used set of these Bilsteins, so naturally no special wrench. Where can I get one?

The 14 language Bilstein instruction booklet would be nice, too, but I realize that's asking a lot.

I do have "101 Projects" though, so I guess I'm OK unless there are some special caveats from the experts or at least the experienced...?

When I talked to Bilstein they told me not to add oil to the strut housing (Bilstein inserts in Boge strut).
-Chris

Many here have reported that a call to Bilstien will yield a wrench for no cost.

AFTERMARKET & MOTORSPORTS
HEADQUARTERS - WEST
14102 Stowe Drive
Poway, CA. 92064
1-858-386-5900

AFTERMARKET & MOTORSPORTS - EAST
293 Timber Road
Mooresville, NC. 28115-7868
1-704-663-7563

Many thanks, Rick. I love this board!

All done! I used a spanner I had laying around that fit the notches on the insert perfectly and snugged it up as tight as possible while my helper steadied the strut. Compressing the shock was easy with a long quick-clamp, and since the original Boge shock inserts appeared oily, I went ahead and added a little ATF to the strut before assembly - not much, maybe 1/2 oz was all it would take, a little messy for sure. A large pipe wrench was used to hold the shock washer at the top while torqueing the nut. Worst part was loosening the bottom bolts on the rear shocks, they were factory torqued with Thor's hammer - a real b**ch.
Car does ride higher, I am contemplating lowering it - should I do this before getting an alignment?
BTW, I noticed the rubber brake lines showed some surface aging and slight cracks, that will be my next project before a flush and bleed. I've read the threads and it seems stock rubber replacement brake lines are the consensus choice for performance v. price.
All in all, it was a wonderful, filthy, exasperating and fulfilling experience. Thanks for the replies, guys!

Joe

That is correct. No oil in housing with a bilstein strut.

The bilsteins are "upside down". The working bits are on top, and that is were all the heat is generated. Oil at the bottom of the hosing is a pointless, messy exercise.

Yes. Lower the car before alignment. Ride height definitely has an effect on alignment settings!

OK, now -- if you put Bilstein inserts in a Boge strut housing...

how does that change things?

I don't understand the question? Please elaborate further.

do you still not put oil in the strut housidng?

i.e. is a Bilstein insert operating upside down when used in a Boge housing?

No oil in Boge housings for Bilstein inserts. The Bilstein inserts are sealed and wouldn't need or use oil from the outside.

I'm talking about the oil that provides heat transfer from the insert to the body of the strut housing - not oil for lubrication.

This is the same info I got from Bilstein...
Many here have recommended filling with trans fluid to aid cooling.
Mfr say's absolutely not.

I thought I'd expand on what I mentioned before:

When I first installed the inserts, I had put some oil in the strut to aid cooling. The seal in the retaining collar (at the top of the strut) failed shortly after installing the inserts.

I called Bilstein to get another seal and that is when I asked them about putting oil in the strut (Boge strut, Bilstein insert). They recommended against it.

I don't know if putting oil in the strut had anything to do with the seal failing but the replacement seal (with no oil in the strut) lasted years.

-Chris

The 95 ft-lb mentioned before is too high; my info from the Bentley is 65 ft-lb.

Joe: What torque did you use?

Gunter: lacking the Bilstein tool, I used the torque spec 'tight as I could friggin' get it at the time with a 10" spanner'. I called Bilstein and they are sending me the tool, which looks like it fits on a 1/2" torque wrench. (why Pelican does not ship these with the inserts, I do not understand) Should I snug it up to 65, then?

Thanks, Joe

Bentley manual says 58 ft-lb with new washer. (65 was something else)
I think if the washer is not to badly damaged, it can be reused.
Does Bilstein give the tool for free?

Gunter: Yes, the Bilstein tool is free, but I think we're talking about two different things - I was referring to the large threaded retainer that secures the cartridge inside of the strut bottom. I infer you are talking about the nut at the top of the insert shaft that tightens against the strut mount inside the front hood - hence your reference to reusing the washer if it is not too badly damaged.
For the free tool, call Bill at Bilstein 800-537-1085 and ask for the 'ring nut tool'.
Sorry for any confusion...

Joe

Does not appear to be free anymore!

I just called and "Bill" told me it was $12 to $15.

Well Bill is screwing you. That tool should be included with every purchase of inserts. How do they expect you to properly torque it without the tool? Buy a specialty tool? :rolleyes: Plus the tool is cheap mild steel. The thing starts to flex as you're cranking on the torque wrench.

The 95 +,- 7 lb-ft is indeed the right torque spec. for the collar nut (not the locknut atop the shock shaft inside the trunk) on the strut body. I took the number from the sheet of paper that comes in the shock box. DNT.....

Yes according to the installtion paper that comes with the shock, correct torque for the collar nut is 95 lb, + or - 7 lb. They do not have to be seated fully against the strut housing according to Bill at Bilstein. Once the torque wrench cliques at 95 lbs, your done. Jerry

I talked to Bill on Wednesday and he said he would send one out to me free of charge. I explained that I JUST purchased their product and wanted to install it correctly. I don't know why he told you there was a charge for it, maybe a flurry of calls since I posted the number?

Thanks for the clarification.
95 ft-lb is certainly up there and it sounds like the special tool is needed.
An E-mail to Wayne may explain why it isn't included with the inserts.

Yeh - I'll bet on the flurry. I told him I'd think about it...

Oh I wish I would have read this thread before I ordered my shock inserts from Pelican.... Oh what fun! I get to wait on a tool that should have been included.

Joe - Did you pull your wheel/strut assembly to get that kind of torque (95 lbs). Or did you leave it in the car.

Thanks,

I had my nephew hold the strut assembly with a strap wrench while I applied the torque of God using a 10" spanner and a chunk of pipe for leverage. It hasn't clunked yet and said Bilstein tool hangs on a nail in the garage yet unused. I will eventually snap it on a 1/2" torque wrench to double check the snugness when I do the brakes.
The difference in handling is really quite remarkable, solid as s**t.
I found my 48" Quik-Clamp to be just the tool to compress the new inserts to clear the fender - it requires a helper and good timing, because once you release the clamp it expands fairly quickly.
Good luck!

Joe

Hi:

Does the MS 08/6 size pictured fit the nut for Boge struts (I have bilstein inserts) and want to check my prior punch job with the correct tool?

Yes that tool pictured is the Bilstein tool that fits their gland nuts for Boge struts

Keep in mind that this adapter is a torque multiplier (or reducer) depending on the orientation of it. This link to Tekton brand of torque wrenches explains it and has a calculator

https://www.tekton.com/blog/how-to-accurately-use-a-torque-wrench-with-a-crowfoot-wrench

Basically if you’re increasing or reducing the length of your torque wrench when using the adapter, you have to adjust the torque wrench setting and it’s not necessarily insignificant. If you use the adapter at a 90 degree angle, there’s no change.

For example, the torque spec is 140Nm = 103 lb-ft. My Craftsman digitork clicker style (non-electronic) 1/2” drive wrench has a 17.5” effective length and the Bilstein adapter has a 2.5” center-center length. So if we use the adapter straight, the effective length of the wrench increases, which increases your leverage, and we have to reduce the setting on the torque wrench. 17.5”/(17.5” + 2.5”) = 0.875.

103 lb-ft x 0.875 = 90.3 lb-ft. A 13 lb-ft decrease to the setting on the torque wrench. . Not a huge amount but definitely significant.

Thanks KTL!

I understood increasing the lever arm adds to the torque. Maybe even covers the + amount of the max torque on another thread. Have to think about the 90 degrees note and will read your link again. I've used crow-foot wrench to remove and install my oil lines on the passenger side, works well with a breaker bar for weak old me :).

Again many thanks!