welder with ?'s for other welders

[Zeke]

OK, before I go over to the welding BBS that I like and get flamed (love that? ), I'll ask here. What's the deal in your opinion on these two welding gizmos from Eastwood. Funny, I've looked all over at professional online supply houses and no one has these that I can find. That makes me skeptical.

http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=1172&itemType=PRODUCT

Here's the blurb on the Stitch dealy:

"Welding Sheet Metal Made Easy! Safely weld sheet metal as thin as 22 gauge. Thanks to a reduction diode that reduces output by half, and lets you use AC arc welders set to 80 amps or less. All circuits have a 100% duty cycle. The arc is self-starting, so there is less chance of the rod sticking. Once you strike the arc, lay the rod on the metal and let the machine do the work. The resulting bead is smooth and even - the slag comes off in large pieces. The 5 foot power cord attches to the electrode holder on any AC output arc welder. Use standard arc welding rods up to 3/32" and weld up to 18 gauge steel."

And here's what they say on the one sided spot welder (which I sure could use if it works):

"This tool produces spot welds very similar to those used when your car was built, and joins panels without the need to grind off weld beads. Spot welding is also fast, avoids distortion and confines heat. The spot weld gun attaches easily to your home arc welder set at 60 amps or less; simply connect the spot welder's cord to the electrode holder on your welder, ground as you normally would. Use the trigger to touch the electrode until a molten puddle of metal is formed. Then pull the trigger up to break the arc. Each electrode provides approx. 60-100 welds. Two electrodes are included."

[vlocci]

Milt,

A buddy bought one years ago. I played with it for a few weeks and in the end thinking he wasted his money.

The stitch welder part uses these small 3/16 rods, which it pulses back and forth with a built in solenoid. The welding current goes through a diode, giving you some rectification. Spring for a 10.00 surplus diode, and get used to working with a welding rod and you just saved 140.00 bucks. Using this on thinner sheet is difficult due to the heat produced, so autobody type repairs are questionable. Also realize that your going to be adjusting this thing time and time again ever time you change thickness or adjust current..

The spot welder portion is better, but still not great. With some practice and patience you can get decent spot welds but it takes time. Lots of it. In my opinion spot welds are nice because they are quick and serve the purpose. Using this attachement the quick part is no longer.

For 140.00 bucks, buy a tong style spot welder that has a built in transformer. Invest in some round copper bar and you can make tongs of all shapes and sizes that help get work done quickly and cleanly. Blind spot welds are not possible, but thinking creativly you can probably get 90% of them done. Even better, apply that 140 toward a decent mig unit and call it done. There is little that cant be done by mig in most autobody repairs.

Vin

[Zeke]

Vin, I have a MIG, oxy/act setup and a cheap 220V buzz box for sticking together steel plate (good practice, BTW, because once you get it right with an AC buzz box, you're home free with the MIG). My next step is to move up to something like a Lincoln 175 Plus unit with infinite power and feed controls.

I have been doing some nice plug welds that are darn near flat when I'm finished. I have yet to try to "polish" them with a TIG tip that would almost emulate a factory spot weld. But, that's an extra step for the real particular type.

I'm particular in my workmanship and am looking of the best advantage at each weld. so, in light of that I have the other tools, I just wondered if the thing (spot welder, anyway) would get some of the blind welds that are impossible with a conventional two prong spot welder.

Two more things: Good idea on making your own tongs with copper bar stock, and I've heard enough negative about these little hand held units that I'm a little reluctant to buy and use one if the welds are going to look OK but break later. Body shop guys use a pretty serious spot welder because all welders in CA that work in a body shop have to be certified (in body welding) and are liable for the repairs just like a building inspector is now liable for his inspections. (Well, OK, these 2 individuals are covered by an employer policy, but the buck stops at the individual).

The spot welder itself is only $54 if you look it up. That is if you already have an arc welder for a power supply. Anyone else?

RickM? Darryl?

[greglepore]

Milt, for a craftsman the two Eastwood pieces are toys. What you ought to look for is an older used tig-a buddy and I picked up an older Airco unit locally for $600-and you can do things with tig that you'd only dream about with mig.

The downside to cheap tigs is that the parts are often a "search and destroy" mission; but given that a new tig of like quality can be 3k or better, and given the use to which its likely to be put, its probably worth the chance.

[DarrylD]

I've got one of the one-sided spot welders and plan to use it when welding a sheetmetal skin to the lower portion of a tubular flat-fender jeep windshield frame. It's been sitting in its original packaging on my desk for about a year now! I certainly looks like a very useful gadget but I would still rather do plug welds with my Miller 175 MIG welder to join unibody panels, simply because I know the penetration will be better.

[Zeke]

Thanks for the compliment and advice, Greg. You know how I suspected these or I wouldn't have come out and asked.

Darryl, you remember I too have a '44 flatty and I know the piece you are talking about! The question is, how did Willys and Ford do it? Me thinks they just used the tongs on both sides of the tube. No one said they had to touch opposite, just deliver current through a circuit with the weld being the resistance.

I just picked up the Harbor Freight stud welder on a lark to see how it might work. You guys know I'm not a big fan of something as crude as a slide hammer Well, the little dude has served its purpose in a couple of spots and paid for itself in an hour.

That actually is what got me to thinking about the one sided spot welder. See, the stud weld holds the stud in a copper center nozzle thingy that pushes down inside a ring of copper. the ring is the "ground" to complete the circuit. Well, you know me, five minutes into the job I'm thinking I can do something better. So I grad a battery jumper cable (a good one) and clamp it onto the outside ring. Now I can attach the "ground" nearby and poke the nozzle into a crevice better and even see what I'm doing.

Next thing I'm thinking is, I could spot weld with this!! But the duty cycle is terrible. I'd be on a typical Porsche spot weld run for a week Seriously, a toy like this is good for 4-5 studs and you have to lay the POS aside to cool down.

Anyone following this nonsense so far? You know those welding fumes.........

[Series900]

zeke/milt wtf? stay away from the gadgets, I went with a 110 miller tong spot unit,worked on the bench, on car, fuggetit. tig or mig. real spot welders are real money and seem to be dedicated to position on the line. In the field, spots would be great, just never enough duty cycle, nor penetration, so tig or mig plug welds...

[DarrylD]

Hey Milt! I have one of those stud puller welders too and your jumper cable idea to ground it for tight spots is brilliant! I like the idea you can also use it to mount trim... like to replace the stripped/busted-off mounting stud on the back of the early dash knee pads!

I'm not sure how the factory attached those jeep windshield skins, they looked like one-sided spot welds to me.

[Zeke]

Originally posted by DarrylD
Hey Milt! I have one of those stud puller welders too and your jumper cable idea to ground it for tight spots is brilliant! I like the idea you can also use it to mount trim... like to replace the stripped/busted-off mounting stud on the back of the early dash knee pads!

I'm not sure how the factory attached those jeep windshield skins, they looked like one-sided spot welds to me.

"like to replace the stripped/busted-off mounting stud on the back of the early dash knee pads!"

Or the torsion bar cover stud!! I just broke one! I'll let you know how it works.

Edit: Damon, good to hear from you! Of course, that's what I thought you'd say. The principle at work here is whether one can gain benefit from a specialized tool of marginal quality. I wasn't brought up that way and have pretty much all of my tools from my teenage karting days (45 years ago!). That shows the quality that was built into tools that were well bought. And don't think they haven't been abused!

But, I'm starting to think differently now. Many tools that were simply out of reach to the home mechanic can now be bought because of the Chinese imports. No one has to preach to me about the American economy and buying American. I have done that all along and continue to do so. However, when you see the EXACT same thing for sale at a FLAPS or tool store that Harbor Freight has for half, what are you going to do?

A perfect example is the Delta 10" Contractors Table Saw. Lumber yards and tool stores, $800+. HF = $369. I have looked that HF saw over many times and it [b]IS]/b] a Delta, painted green instead of grey. At least made in the same factory. And the Delta plainly states "Made in Taiwan" right on the machine.

So, these welders, some are junk and some are simply over priced. Not many are made on our shores.