Intercooler Specs???

[patkeefe]

Anyone know either the heat transfer specifications or where to find such specs for (what I will guess is) a stock 930 intercooler? I will go read the German tag on it tomorrow. I'd specifically like to know what kind of heat transfer I can assume I would get from this unit; entering air temp, leaving air temp. In short, I'd like to know how effective it is.
Thanks!
Pat

[dean]

I don't think you will find accurate info like that unless you do it yourself. I have read on the Kokelin site that the stock intercooler is 18% efficient. But do you think that is accurate? I doubt it.

[patkeefe]

The German tag says:

Langerer & Reich
LR# 37080208
Kd# 930.110.233.07
Kom# 306251
PB 0.85 bar
Dat 02/89

Is the PB the pressure drop? Seems pretty high.
BTW, thread cojoined with this:
BAE Turbo Install, Part 1

Thanks!
Pat

[dean]

You better hope that isn't the pressure drop

That is maybe the pressure rating but that seems low to me.

[patkeefe]

Yeah, I'd need a LOT of boost to overcome that drop. That's definitely low for a pressure rating. Looks like a stock 89 930 intercooler, however.

[slow&rusty]

Originally posted by patkeefe
I'd like to know how effective it is.
Thanks!
Pat

Not effective at all.....the intercooler is antique....I did some test with it at the lab at work...and it was pretty pathetic

Pressure drop was just over 1.5psi at 11psi inlet (approx)
Temps drop will depend on a HUGE host of external factors, ambient temp, speed of car, engine temp etc....so it is hard to generalize.

Yasin

[Emission]

Where is the boost measured (assuming max boost is .8 bar)? At the throttle, or before the intercooler (where it would be an issue for pressure drop)? At the wastegate?

[Emission]

My stock intercooler is stamped "PB 1.5 BAR" on the side...

[patkeefe]

Yasin:
Have you tested any other intercoolers? I assume you had a set of controlled conditions for your testing on this model. I was thinking about doing some testing also, here at work, just to get a rough idea of what it can do. The PB number is a bit baffling, as emission has a different number on his.
Pat

[slow&rusty]

I have tested a bunch intercoolers...yes I have too much free time (well I did), thats what happens when you own three turbo cars...LOL

B&B vs Stock


B&B vs a custom unit I designed (version 1):


The improved Version 2 I designed:


My version 2 compared to stock:


Some other intercoolers I have tested:
1988 Supra vs 1989 MR2


Isuzu NPR Truck vs 1988 Supra:


1987 Mitsubishi Starion vs 1988 Supra:


I thought I had more pics...I can dig them up...

Yasin

[patkeefe]

Yasin:
The one on the left in the top pic is what I have. I'm only going to running 0.5 bar boost. I'm really thinking about a water cooled intercooler, so I don't have to modify my decklid.
Pat

[slow&rusty]

I assume you mean "Air To Water" not water cooled? As you can get a water cooled intercooler as available on the Subaru STi and the Japanese Spec EVO?

Please clarify?

Yasin

[patkeefe]

Sorry, Yasin. I do indeed mean an air to water intercooler. I have to investigate further what magnitude of heat transfer I can get with a setup like that. Piping the intercooler from the engine compartment up to the front fenderwell of the car. I think my best option would be something like a motorcycle radiator and fan up in the drivers side fenderwell.
Pat

[slow&rusty]

Air To water Intercoolers work well. I just installed one in a 400ish hp MR2.

You will need a radiator much larger than a bike rad...we used a brand new radiator out of a VW Scirocco.

Other aspects that I do not like with the Air to Water set-up...quite alot of plumbing involved and constant load from the circulating marine pump.

I do like how compact the Intercooler is and that the blow off valve is attached directly to the intercooler.

Regards - Yasin

[Have Blue]

Yasin,Porsche obviously thought it was important to seal the intercooler to the top of the engine lid,but you don't see it much on aftermarket coolers. In your opinion is the intercooler more efficient "unsealed",just because it radiates heat in every direction,or "sealed",relying on air being forced through the core from above..or even sucked through by the fan from beneath? I just always had a hard time picturing turbulent airflow coming down the back window,then making a 90 degree turn straight down where it has to negotiate all the tiny holes of an intercooler core! Sorry for the hijak and the long post,but it's an issue i've wondered about for a long time. Regards,Rowan.

[slow&rusty]

Rowan - That is a good question. Porsche did put a seal on the factory IC, mostly to force air through the core itself creating potentially more cooling. Its like blowing through a straw..instead of blowing into a cup..more channeled air flow basically.

Every single aftermarket IC for the 911 Turbo whether it be Kokeln, Andial or B&B do not use this seal, I didn't either and quite frankly I am not too worried about it.

These aftermarket ICs use extremely efficient bar and plate cores and larger surface areas so the air flow coming over the car and down the rear window does a pretty slick job of reducing the intake charge temperature.

Yasin

[ben parrish]

Yasin, Of the IC’s you tested, which stock unit did the best job. Just thinking out loud, if there was an acceptable candidate, couldn’t one modify it for a 3.2 turbo conversion? Seems a simple way to reduce the cost of a conversion. Stock units are cheap in a junk yard.
Thanks, Ben

[Emission]

Originally posted by slow&rusty
Rowan - That is a good question. Porsche did put a seal on the factory IC, mostly to force air through the core itself creating potentially more cooling.

OK, with that in mind...

I just removed my A/C and the condensor that is mounted on the underside of the grill on the tail. One half of the intake air is now directed throught the intercooler (with the seal), the other half just floats into the engine bay.

Considering the flow used to be restricted somewhat by the condensor, should I plug that area off now to force air through the intercooler? I am assuming the path of least resisistance for the air is now on the open right side...

[dean]

Originally posted by Have Blue
Yasin,Porsche obviously thought it was important to seal the intercooler to the top of the engine lid,but you don't see it much on aftermarket coolers. In your opinion is the intercooler more efficient "unsealed",just because it radiates heat in every direction,or "sealed",relying on air being forced through the core from above..or even sucked through by the fan from beneath? I just always had a hard time picturing turbulent airflow coming down the back window,then making a 90 degree turn straight down where it has to negotiate all the tiny holes of an intercooler core! Sorry for the hijak and the long post,but it's an issue i've wondered about for a long time. Regards,Rowan.

I think it is very important to direct all the air through the intercooler or what ever heat exchanger device you are using. ie oil cooler, radiator. I know all manufactures do this with shrouding so I would think they think it is important also.

[dean]

Originally posted by Emission
OK, with that in mind...

I just removed my A/C and the condensor that is mounted on the underside of the grill on the tail. One half of the intake air is now directed throught the intercooler (with the seal), the other half just floats into the engine bay.

Considering the flow used to be restricted somewhat by the condensor, should I plug that area off now to force air through the intercooler? I am assuming the path of least resisistance for the air is now on the open right side...

I don't think you should restrict your engine cooling. You should get a full bay intercooler instead seriously