Power Window Switch schematic
 

I was attempting to help a fellow Pelican with a power window problem and in the process attempted to figure out how those nasty little switches worked. Armed with a Fluke meter I came up with the following:


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1150393107.jpg

And the complete circuit looks like this:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1150392903.jpg

Thank You for the wiring diagrams

Everything looks the same, except driver side passenger window switch 1.=red/blk. 2.=red/white

once I switch those two wires like your diagram where
1.= red/white 2.= red/blk. the passenger windows stops working.

If I live it 1.=red/blk. 2.=red/white the passenger works

either way I switch the wires the driver/passenger switch does not work

I tried another switch in excellent condition and still did not work
any other ideas?

Thank You

You can rule out a power issue because the passenger door switch works. That indicates that there is 12 volts on the driver's door Passenger switch.
I think you have a bad ground connection on the switch that is not working. Attach a wire to terminal 4 and clip it to the metal door frame and see if it works. The next guess is the switch is bad. If the internal sliding contacts aren't moving then the switch never provides a ground. If you want to experiment swap switches. It might just make more sense to install a new one.

I got a switch from a local porsche shop (parts heaven) and attched it still did NOT work.

Your right I am starting to suspect a bad ground

Thank You

jtkkz - Did this turn out to be a bad ground? If so, how did you fix it?

My scenario;
Driver side switch - works fine
Driver side passenger switch - does not work up or down
Passenger switch - works fine

I have checked all three switch connections numerous times and I can't get the driver side passenger switch to work.

I never got it to worked, I gave on it for now....
I tried all the different wiring combo, nothing worked. It use to work fine till I removed it to replace my door panel...

I have the exact same scenario as you...
Driver side switch - works fine
Driver side passenger switch - does not work up or down
Passenger switch - works fine

It's a conspiracy!!! I am going out to the garage in a minute to troubleshoot the same thing. I will let you know what I find.

Seems pretty simple

On the drivers side door switch

With the switch off there should be 12 volts (battery voltage) between pins

• 2 to chassis
• 1 to chassis
• and 0 volts pin 1 to 2

With the switch up (maybe down the schematic isn't clear) there should be 12 volts between 1 and 2 and -12 volts with the switch in the other direction (zero neutral position).

The beauty of these switches are that they can be disassembled and cleaned. I've repaired mine that way, saved a lot of time and a few bucks, too.

just a JW quote just in case

"JW says, looking at the back of the switch, with
the single terminal at the top, the red wire goes to the top and
bottom right, the brown ground goes bottom left, and the two other
wires from the motor go on the middle two. if the motor goes the
wrong way, swap the middle ones. the right window won't work if
the left window switch is bad, or wired wrong"

I had no time to trouble shoot this issue this weekend, but the switch decided to work intermittently today... I think the door panel needs to come of at this point so I can check out the wiring. I have tried moving the switches around. It's not the switch.

Hi...My first post.

This is REALLY helpful. ...I have printed this out to help me in my project.

I have think I have incorrectly wired and maybe bad switch(s) as well.
But this is just what I needed.

how about a diagram for this pesky power mirrors.

:D

Both windows now work !!!

I had power where needed but finally tracked things down to a bad Pass switch and a bad ground on the Drivers side.

GREAT info

Thanks.

OK ... now for more projects

Here's my issue:

Passenger window goes DOWN via Driver and Passenger switch, but not UP from either. Its at 4" open right now, starting my trouble shooting run once the kids are settled.

Thinking straight for the door panel, I have power/ground to go DOWN but not UP....

Thanks!

Great diagram, very helpful - I am in a passenger side RAISE-ONLY fail situation...tracing the loops in this diagram helps me isolate where to look for my problem ("1" to ground "4", passenger side switch).

Off to the door panel!

-Todd

new switch open circuit
 

I just spent the weekend cleaning and greasing my passenger window mechanism. Everything worked fine except the new switch. It turned out that the internal connection, in these diagrams from 4 - X was open. Check it with an Ohm meter otherwise your window will only travel up or down.

3 New "German" Switches Installed, Solved My Problem
 

I ended up frying the driver's side passenger-window switch in my debugging (bad gatorclip setup), and so ordered 3 of the "German" Pelican Switches. I "hotwired" the window closed with a set of wires to my cigarette outlet, verifying the motor worked fine. I also learned that the door panel does not need to be removed to pull the switches out (after taking the door apart...oh well).

The finish of the new switches to be completely different than the stock, even the size is a bit bigger, and the color more grayish and matte so I'm glad I got all 3 so they at least match each other. (Are the Porsche official ones black and shiny?)

BUT after a quick ground check of the switches themselves (thank you 5495bb) they plugged right in and all the windows are now working great.

SO I have 1 good stock switch, and 2 questionable samples if anyone is interested in doing rebuilds of these nasties...

-Todd

Power Window use relay?
 

Power window needs relay? It seems difficult to make use of relays in these scheme? I am connecting my windows from scratch, and I am afraid to run the power directly thrue the switches. How big fuse does I need for the power window? 30A?

Thanks for the diagram. I just have had two what I thought were unrelated situations finally seem to come together.

Three times in the last month I have come out to a dead battery. The battery charges fine and holds a charge. I have checked to see if I left lights on, those parking lights with the turn signal ---nothing. Then I noted that the passenger window switch on the drivers door had a broken spring and sometimes would stay in the "UP" position.

Now my passenger window is not working from either switch. Fortunately it is up.

My question is this: Could I have burned out my motor by having the switch stuck UP or is there a cutoff once the window is in the up position? If there is no cutoff, this could explain the erratic discharging of the battery. Is there an easy way to check to motor?

OLD THREAD ALERT
robhamster,
burn out the motor? anything is possible, but power would have to be continually applied, and unless the switch is held or is shorted, this wouldn't happen.
There is no integral limit/cutoff switch.

Easiest way to check for drain might be to pop the fuse or relay.
Or pull the connector off of the motor (kind of a pain in the door if the plastic tit is locked position). Easier if you pull the motor, but it's recommended that you drop the regulator half way (catch 22) to get access to remove the motor.

Or pull the switch connector, but hook them back up when you're done (hot at least when driving and could short).
hth

Thanks,

On my car I have always been able to put the windows down without the key in from the drivers side controls. I think the driver side switch for the passenger window was stuck and the motor may have burned out that way. I will check all fuses. Sounds like testing the motor is a PITA but I will study on it further before doing too much damage.

On my 86, the dead battery was caused by the door jam switches (the ones that put the interior lights on). Porsche has had several different setups over the years, but in my 86, the power to the windows remained available after the ignition was turned off, until you open the door. The relay was supposed to relax at that point. My bad switches didn't turn off the relay, and the current required to keep the relay energized, would kill the battery.

I hate my 930's power windows. They make me want to take a hammer to my roof.

can you share this process?

I changed the switch on the drivers door and the window still did not work, so I went to my local Porsche wrench who checked all the connections and it turns out the motor was not turning.

I pulled the motor tonight and it must have a loose brush because it works intermittently. I will pull the housing off and see about rehabbing the motor before I give up and order a new one.

I don't have any pictures, but as memory serves, there are two slots on the switch where you can insert a small screwdriver and carefully pry it apart. From there you need to watch where the pieces go as you pull it open.
The main bits are brass arms or levers that rock back and forth. On one switch, polishing the contacts was enough, and on the other, arcing had occurred, damaging it. In that case it was possible to turn that piece over ( or end for end, I forget) which then put a clean unused area into play.
Sorry if that isn't clear enough, but search around, maybe someone has pics.
The switches aren't expensive, but I fixed mine in 15 minutes, versus waiting a week to get them shipped from our host.

This was a nice thread that helped me troubleshoot my window. Thanks for everyone's contributions. So although old, I'll continue on with it to provide findings of my issue which will hopefully help someone with these pesky switch issues.

Issue #1: Passenger window would not roll up or down using either driver side or passenger side switch. I was getting power to the driver side, but not to the passenger side.

Root Cause #1: The driver side window switch that did not properly pass power through the switch to the passenger side switch. When in the neutral state, the switch acts as a power "pass-through" for the opposing side switch. I found that when toggling the switch, the side switching to the ground (1-4 or 2-x) would not properly seat itself back in the neutral position (1-3 or 2-5) and would remain open. If I jiggled the switch it'd settle back to normal and it'd have continuity for the power circuit. The switch seemed to be overcome by friction either in the plastic housing or on the spring-mounted contact posts that wouldn't allow it to return easily to neutral... or tolerances were just off.

Corrective Action #1: After I disassembled the switch, as much as I tried, I couldn't fix the switch for this issue. I tried adding solder to the tops of the terminals, or slightly bending the teeter-totter, but nothing worked. I simply moved it to the driver side window which doesn't require this "pass-through" feature.

Issue #2: Same is first really, but probably would only result in one direction not working (up/down) if all else worked. I found all root causes at the same time after removing the switch and dismantling.

Root Cause #2: The switch also did not properly ground the (X) post to the copper bridge to (4). These posts are mechanically locked, are not soldered, and are thus prone to intermittent opens. See picture.

Corrective Action #2: I added solder to the posts. Every post. I figured it'd happen to others eventually.

I've had repeated issues with these switches. Not the best design, in my opinion. In addition to soldering the posts, I'd probably solder a small spring to each power post to allow for a bit of play in the switch in the neutral position. Maybe next time.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1298306950.jpg

i might as well try to earn my keep





http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1298316347.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1298316365.jpg

My driver's side power window will not go up or down. Test light shows power available to posts on the switch. I exchanged with the switch from the passenger door with no improvement. I tried a jumper from the ground pin to the body without any success.

Am I correct in assuming the most likely problem is the motor itself?

Any tips and thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Willie

Willie,

Who needs a window, especially in a Targa?

Check the motor per my previous post. I needed new brushes and John Eisenbud was very helpful once I got the motor out. There is a safety fuse in our cars that goes off and he pulled it out, put new brushes in and my motor works wonderful. I want to rehab the other door now, especially on a cold morning.

Maybe see you tomorrow, with your window in some position!

PM me and I might be able to come by and offer assistance

Window Switches.
 

For the 3.2 Folks. (And perhaps others)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1313881826.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1313881855.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1313881935.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1313882067.jpg

2 nights ago I removed my driver side door panel to grease the lock and install a speaker. Easy , until you try to route the new wires through the grommets into the cabin !
Up til midnight and next day found the passenger side window would not work - well the passenger switch wound it down, but then not up!

Even though it turned out it was just a ground spade connector that had pulled off , the problem was that there is no free cable play and a springy rubber boot around the terminals - extremely frustrated by lack of access and I really didn't want to disassemble the other switch to gain more room!

So I scribbled down the wire positions , sliced the boot for better access and invented some new words as my oversized fingers eventually pushed the terminals back on.

Then , I stripped the bolts holding the door handle on.
Another late night...

Why is it that these little jobs turn into while your there's, and not infrequently a visit from Mr Sod enacting his Law?

I tell my wife that mechanics are the most patient people in the world and that this is good for my psychological development.

The moral? Remove that door card at own risk!

Hi Rob thanks for the feed back on Eisenbud and his being able to fix your motor ... definitley something to consider.

The car is scheduled into Eurosport this week to have the old muffler replaced with a Bursch I picked up from Tom. So I'll have them pull the regulator and see what can be done with the motor .... damned COPD has really reduced what I can do on my own.

I'll see you this morning for the triple bipass run to Breckenridge ... always one of the best Breakfast club runs of the year.

Side glass is at half mast ... is half full or half empty ? I hope to get back to town before the afternoon rains hit.

86 911 Targa, thanks for the pics and schematic that was a help to me yesterday and I'm sure it will benefit others as well.

Also a big thanks to all those that posted to this thread and shared their knowledge and experiences ... this is a great community and old threads never die ...

Tazzieman - I'm sure we all share your frustration with the lack of wire length ...
Willie

submitted twice in error

Great thread!!! Just used the photos and schematics to hook up a missing window switch. Worked first time. Thanks!!!

I read thru this entire thread, didn't see a case that fits mine, so I'd thought I'd ask.... 1983 911 convertible, passenger window was slow in the move for a while, then both windows became stuck in the off position. I pulled both door panels, no power (with key on, and power is going thru fuse) to any of the switches. I ran a dedicated 12v lead to the drivers side switches, still no window operation. I then added a dedicated ground from the brown lead - which immediately become glowing red hot... If the passenger side motor is dead, could it cause this kind of effect?

Obviously I have little electrical experience. I have been unable to find the grounds of this looped circuit (one by the gas filler cap, and one in each door) that another thread describes. The only loose wire I can find is the "resonance sensor" on the inside of the passenger door panel.

Any help is appreciated 1million times over. Cell is 817.291.6595 if someone happens on this question today (9-25), Im working on it today

Does the first diagram in this thread apply to later models, such as my '88? I'm trying to solve a bizarre problem with my windows and want to use the diagram but only if it applies to my car. Also, is the diagram representing all switches? For some reason when wired up correctly my car will lower the pass. window with the passenger side switch but it won't go UP using the switch. I've put 2 or 3 new switches in and the same thing happens. Whats really odd is if I switch the blue and blue/black wires to each others tabs on the switch I can lower the window fine by depressing the switch as if I was lowering the window. This is confusing the hell out of me.

I think it applied to my 88 but it has been a while.

Did you try one of the good switches in the drivers door?

I have tried a couple of other switches and same problem. I have been "testing" the switches and as far as I can tell they are working as designed. I seem to have continuity between the hard wired connections and I get continuity when the lever is moved in either direction. Electronics confuse the heck out of me though so maybe I'm not doing it right. I keep having the identical symptoms even with different switches. Not sure if I mentioned this but the drivers side switch for the pass. door does not seem to work at all but that's confusing since I can get the pass. window to go up and down by reversing the blue wires...that would indicate there's nothing wrong with the driver door switch for the pass. door....correct?